BREAKING NEWS: Wayne Bent ends prison fast

VIDEO

It’s official.  The self-described Messiah who proclaimed that he would fast until death, if sent to prison, is now eating while behind bars.

Roughly 30-minutes ago, KOB-Investigative reporter Jeremy Jojola learned of this latest development in the Wayne Bent case while opening an e-mail from a prison spokesperson.  A few minutes later, Beyond90Seconds.com conducted a video interview with Jojola as he sat at his desk in the KOB-TV newsroom:

POLL CLOSED

Because Wayne Bent has ended his fast, Beyond90Seconds.com has closed its recent poll asking, “How long will Wayne Bent’s fast last?” The poll was posted December 31, 2008 at 10:26pm PST. The results can be found here.

250 Responses to BREAKING NEWS: Wayne Bent ends prison fast

  1. avatar
    Sam Redman January 2, 2009 at 4:57 pm #

    I have been attempting to speculate what Wayne Bent’s motivation could have been to change from his “die hard” position of fasting until death to having his lunch at noon on Friday. Some have speculated about the (so very convenient) three-day fast as being one his, “Oh, look at me, I’m like Jesus there in that tomb and now I’m resurrected after, “wha d ya know– three days.” But, possibly, the reason was because the mental health people told him that he would be getting tubes stuck in his belly and he came to the conclusion that doing some time with munchies wouldn’t be so bad after all.

    One thing they also may have told him is that he will be allowed visitors (that is a very minimal security prison) and he will be able to have outdoor privileges and limited personal contact (not behind glass) for those visitations. Plus, he will be able to write and get lots of letters (prisoners do a lot of writing), which might be able to be published for him (by Jeff) online. They may have also explained the old classic, “hard time or easy time logic,” where they would have told him; “If you choose to be difficult and we have to stick tubes in you, then you will get no time off for ‘good behavior’ and end up serving your entire sentence.” Where as, if he is very good and cooperative, he will earn a steady stream of time taken off his term and he would only end up serving about half (5 years). He then might even be eligible for parole in only 3 or so.

    My guess is that all that logic added up and he soon realized that he was in a “can’t win” situation with his “hold my breath til I’m blue” approach. Further, one overlooked aspect is that getting this guy away from the poisonous chemicals which emanated from the walls of his manufactured housing (a well known problem, called “toxic trailer syndrome”) might have cleared his brain from some of his messiah fantasies. And then, a final possibility is that they gave him some sort of psychotropic medication, which would seem to be a standard course of treatment in a place like that, if you have someone who is “acting crazy.” This prison bout might just “cure him” and he’ll end up as just another aging hippie poet writing haiku.

    Would be Messiah
    starves slowly until Friday
    then has a nice lunch

  2. avatar
    Jan January 2, 2009 at 9:10 pm #

    Sam posted:

    Would be Messiah
    starves slowly until Friday
    then has a nice lunch

    ———————————-

    Great post by Sam Redman and perfect ending!

    There are many who have been speculating for the last 24 hours on why Wayne would suddenly end his fast after only 3 short days. Like all things Wayne has done, one would think there is more to this than we may as yet know. I am expecting at some point some convoluted Spiritual explanation that will satisfy his people that some how this is indeed what God told him he must do. Whatever might eventually come out of Wayne’s mouth I believe that Sam’s explanation of why he did this makes the most sense.

    This man is not stupid and he also appeared to me a man that liked things comfortable and pleasant around him. Just my gut feeling about Wayne. And the thought of having tubes stuck in his belly was not nearly as appealing as the munchies in the belly. There is also the matter of them being willing to accommodate a special diet, so he would in fact be able to have his “food de jour,” just the way he always has.

    I especially liked the idea of the “serving hard time verses serving easy time.” Again Wayne to me seems not that tough and why not just cooperate and be a model prisoner? Who knows maybe he can do a little preaching in there and gather a following. This all will be much easier if he cooperates. And maybe too he can knock that 10 years down to 5 and maybe even 3. He would only be 70 and still able to enjoy time outside, with his people.

    Needless to say this was an unexpected turn of events. But so much of what has happened at Strong City is not anything many of us can even fathom so this is another addition to a bizarre strange story. Bbut maybe this ending, will hopefully in some way offer something of a wake up call that Wayne is not “Michael,” but just Wayne Curtis Bent, male, 67 years old and that is all.

  3. avatar
    Wayniac January 3, 2009 at 1:05 am #

    Just a FYI…under NM state law Wayne must serve 85% of his 10 year prison sentence before he will be eligible for parole.

  4. avatar
    Juror January 3, 2009 at 7:52 am #

    Wayniac… thanks for that info I was sick just to think that he could go back in 3 years to continue to destroy those poor people. Do you know if he has to register as a sex offender? Also what happened to the appeal? can the appeal happen at anytime?
    I am just glad we got the 3 out of 4 counts

    Also to let you all know there was only one person that wasnt for guilty on all 4 at first til the second day of deliberation. So if there is an appeal maybe the next jury will convict on all 4.

    New Mexico doesnt need other sex offenders to move here and think they can get away with sexual abuse, contact or contributing to a minor.

  5. avatar
    Sam Redman January 3, 2009 at 9:01 am #

    Which law is that?

  6. avatar
    Sam Redman January 3, 2009 at 9:14 am #

    I always appreciate an “FYI.” But, those are even nicer when they are accompanied by a source reference. I think that we are all truly always anxious to learn. I did read (perhaps the same thing as you) a passing mention of the 85% requirement in a FOX “news” article. But, the only actual descriptions in citable references, which I can find about the 85 percent requirement, are in articles about the “New Mexico Earned Meritorious Deduction/Truth in Sentencing law,” passed in 1999, which says that “serious violent offenders” must serve at least 85 percent of their sentences. Here is one reference to that:

    === Putting a link here seemed to cause the post not show (so perhaps you can google for that) ===

    I thought that perhaps, a sex offense fell under the same umbrella as a violent offender (but I found out that is not true). The substantiation for that can be found in the code (you can find it in the reference at the end of this post).

    There are situations in other states, which I am aware of, for earning “good time” considerations (especially for non-violent crimes). Offenders can often earn sentence deductions for certain activities such as completing educational or mental health programs. Plus, there is sometimes a detailed formula, like they have in Oregon, where for example, one day is deducted for every two days served. Also (in Oregon), one day is deducted for every 15 days of work in the prison industry or for meritorious service (it’s 1 for 7 for teaching a class, something Bent might do). Here is a reference to that Oregon article:

    === Again.. putting in links, seemed to cause this not to show (you can google for it) ===

    Since Oregon and other states also have “minimum time for violent offender” rules, similar to New Mexico… it makes me wonder if New Mexico doesn’t also have one of these “good time equals time off” systems in place as well. It would be great if we could get the whole story on this. I am anxious to see some reference links

    I have found the site with the New Mexico codes about meritorious deductions. Maybe, I can put the link if I break it up (take the spaces out):

    law. justia. com/ newmexico/codes/ nmrc/jd_33-2-34-d129.html

  7. avatar
    KM January 3, 2009 at 10:03 am #

    Sam,
    I just pulled a few bits from one section, probably other statutes, I just haven’t looked. Think it’s the same one you found.

    ConwayGreene, 33-2-34.

    Eligibility for earned meritorious deductions.
    A. To earn meritorious deductions, a prisoner confined in a correctional facility designated by the corrections department must be an active participant in programs recommended for the prisoner by the classification supervisor and approved by the warden or the warden’s designee.

    (1) for a prisoner confined for committing a serious violent offense, up to a maximum of four days per month of time served; “serious violent offense” includes second and third degree criminal sexual contact of a minor.

    F. A prisoner is not eligible to earn meritorious deductions if the prisoner:… (4) is not an active participant in programs recommended and approved for the prisoner by the classification supervisor.

    I don’t do math so couldn’t figure out the possible time off, maybe someone else can.

    The operative phrase in those – “Must be an active participant”.
    A reason for eating?

    Also, Los Lunas might not be the final stop for WB. He might have figured out that if he’s not classified as needing mental health services he could possibly be moved backed to Clayton, closer to SC. A long shot but he’s not stupid, more of a wily coyote.

  8. avatar
    KM January 3, 2009 at 10:26 am #

    Juror, yes he will have to register AFTER his release and serve a period of parole. The following is not the full statute, just bits and pieces that explain the process a little bit. There are many more rules involved but these address the registering part. And it looks like he has 30 days to appeal but the courts will sometimes grant a short extension.

    31-21-10.1. Sex offenders; period of parole; terms and conditions of parole.

    A. If the district court sentences a sex offender to a term of incarceration in a facility designated by the corrections department, the district court shall include a provision in the judgment and sentence that specifically requires the sex offender to serve an indeterminate period of supervised parole for a period of:

    (2) not less than five years and up to the natural life of the sex offender for the offense of aggravated criminal sexual penetration, criminal sexual penetration in the first or second degree, criminal sexual contact of a minor in the second or third degree or sexual exploitation of children by prostitution in the first or second degree.

    29-11A-7. Notice to sex offenders of duty to register.

    B. the corrections department, a municipal or county jail or a detention center at the time of release of a sex offender in its custody, shall provide a written notice to the sex offender of his duty to register, pursuant to the provisions of the Sex Offender Registration and Notification Act. The written notice shall inform the sex offender that he is required to:

    (1) register with the county sheriff for the county in which the sex offender will reside or, if the sex offender will not have an established residence, with the county sheriff for each county in which the sex offender will live or be temporarily located pursuant to the provisions of the Sex Offender Registration and Notification Act;

    Hope that helps. Let me know if you would like more info and I’ll try to locate it.

  9. avatar
    Sam Redman January 3, 2009 at 10:38 am #

    Thanks KM – looks like we are of the same opinion.

    I also found this on the New Mexico Bar association website (which would seem to apply to all but, “serious violent offenders”):

    GOOD TIME CREDIT: An allowance of credit toward a sentence for good behavior while in the jail or prison. Prisoners may earn up to 2/3 off their sentences in the local jails, and 1/2 off their sentences for good time (in prisons).

    Go to this site (can’t put hot links here) by copying and pasting:

    nmbar.org/Public/commonlegalterms.html (new Mexico state bar site).

    Here is that other one (ready for copying and pasting), which has the definitions of “serious violent offenders” and how only they are the ones not eligible for standard “good time” provisions.

    law.justia.com/newmexico/codes/nmrc/jd_33-2-34-d129.html (New Mexico codes about Earned meritorious deductions).

    There is a lot more to be discovered on this… it seems to be very discretionary with nothing guaranteed. Most important in what I have found in several references is the need for someone who is applying for parole, very much like in the various religious traditions, to “humble themselves” and express remorse for their crime and describe their own personally directed positive efforts to “rehabilitate.” Unless Wayne Bent plays that ‘game”… he’s not going to leave until all ten years have passed.

  10. avatar
    Jan January 3, 2009 at 10:48 am #

    This is all fascinating information that KM and Sam have gathered for us. It does gives us some idea of what might have prompted a change in attitude by Wayne. There do seem to be statutes in place that might allow Wayne to shorten the actual time in jail down from the complete 10 years.

    However … one applying for parole usually has to be willing to admit they have committed a crime and be remorseful for what they have done. This might be a little harder than not fasting because to admit wrong doing would perhaps not sit well with all those who believed Wayne was acting “spiritually.”

    I suppose all that might change in time as Wayne realizes it will be his only way back to real freedom in the outside world.

  11. avatar
    KM January 3, 2009 at 11:10 am #

    Very discretionary and absolutely no guarantees. He’s on the other side of the coin now, he has to play the game to get “approval”. An interesting switch of roles for him and probably not to his liking.

    On the same day WB got sentenced another sex offender in NM was also sentenced. He was a coach who had sex more than once with a 16 yo female athlete. His sentence was 10 months of work release and registering as a sex offender.

    The difference was he pled guilty which avoided having the girl testify in court. He ate humble pie. He didn’t blame anyone but himself and he didn’t fill pages on the internet with hate filled words against the government, the families who got out from under his claws and anyone else he could think of.

    WB has a lot of growing up to do!

  12. avatar
    Jan January 3, 2009 at 3:35 pm #

    Based on the new Strong City post by Hanifa Travesser it would seem that this contrition by Wayne Bent will not come easily.

    In a letter written to the Governor of New Mexico Hanifa says:
    “Wayne Bent aka Michael Travesser, one of our brothers, was recently tried, convicted and sentenced for a crime that he did not commit.”

    “The only line Mr. Bent crossed was that of generally accepted religious behavior but he never committed a crime.”

    Interestingly enough she also brings up the same case that KM referred to. She is outraged at the difference in the sentences of each man. She clearly has no concept of the difference when one pleads guilty, accepts that they have done wrong and is willing to move on with life in a different way.

    She concludes with comments against the words of the Judge in his message to religious leaders. It is apparent that Hanifa strongly believes that Wayne without question had the right to do what he did because it was the will of God.

    If Wayne’s thoughts continue to reflect those of his Strong City people I think it will be a long while before he adds “humble pie,” to his prison diet. Right now it certainly looks like this group is anything but ready to accept their leader’s sentence as the letters and pleas on his behalf have begun.

  13. avatar
    Stephanie January 3, 2009 at 9:03 pm #

    Hanifa does bring up the issue where the school teacher who sexually penetrated minors and admitted to this only received 10 months work release. 10 months? And this man admitted to repeated sexual penetration.
    I’ve been doing some quick reading here, and I would like to understand why WB gets 10 years, and this man gets only 10 months.

    Something is not right here.

    As for WB ending his fast, has any of you been inside of a prison? Just curious. It’s not some place you want to go through a fast in. It’s different than being in your comfort zone such as one’s own home and bed, compared to a cell with a ratty blanket and a bedroll.

    A very good friend of mine went to prison. He tried the whole “fasting until i get out of here” deal. They never threatened to put tubes in him. They just continued giving him his meals and he continued throwing them away. They can’t force you to eat. He gave in and started eating once he realized nothing was going to change. I know for fact that the prison system doesn’t care if you let yourself die in it. In fact, they don’t care if you get medications that you need to take to keep you alive. I’m not so sure I believe they sat WB down and told him they were going to put tubes in him, or let him know he was going to get to have endless letters and yard time. That seems silly to me. It’s a given when you enter the prison system that you get to write letters, you get yard time with good behavior and you have the right to visitations with good behavior. Starving yourself to death is not considered bad behavior, at least not in the state of California.

  14. avatar
    Stephanie January 3, 2009 at 9:05 pm #

    Jan, regardless of admittance to sexual penetration with minors, 10 months is NOTHING and I’m sorry but the teacher should have gotten years not months.
    And not all judges are going to be lenient if one admits a crime anyway. I’m thrilled that WB is being punished for his crimes, but the system is screwy.

  15. avatar
    KM January 3, 2009 at 9:13 pm #

    Nope, not much humble pie being served at SC. Both letters blame everyone but the one person who like the judge said was the adult and should have said “NO”.

    So his followers will continue writing in the same vein as their “brother”. That sure is different from 6 months ago when he was their “messiah”. Maybe the Governor would like to see Sam Redman’s website with all the cached writings on them. Actually the letter should be addressed to Lt. Gov. Diane Denish as well as Gov. Richardson as she’ll soon be taking over when he moves to D.C.

    They condemn the parents and the older girl, calling them immoral. But the younger girl “is honorable, upright and obeys her parents unless and until it conflicts with her God-given conscience”. She directly disobeying her parents by jumping into WB’s bed after he told her “they trusted him”. Isn’t that one of the commandments? To honor your father and mother.

    And He did “cause…., or to otherwise encourage a minor’s disregard for the law.” Healed had no regard for the law, continuing to make contact with people from SC after she was told not to. And Healed swore to tell the truth on the witness stand. I don’t think she was completely honest except at the point when she broke down and said “I love Michael”.

    The most ridiculous statement was this – “Mr. Bent was never allowed to speak for himself, that is, give a full testimony regarding the charges against him, until after the verdict was reached”. I could have sworn he got up on the witness stand before the jury went to deliberate. I guess because he wasn’t allowed to hold a “meeting” and explain away everything to his satisfaction he doesn’t consider that he was able to get his side across to the jury.

    Their “brother” is in prison because he laid naked with minor girls and he touched them while they were naked. He admitted it. Since no one else was in the bedroom with them the jury listened to the girls, the only real witnesses to what happened. The oldest told the truth, unrefined or coached by anyone. She’s the hero in this for telling the truth and I’m proud of her for standing firm.

  16. avatar
    Stephanie January 3, 2009 at 9:14 pm #

    Additonally they gave Mary Kay Latourneau 7 years for repeated offenses of having sexual relations with a 13 year old child. She admitted to her offenses.

    It really bugs me that this school teacher would only get a minor sentence for his admitted continual offenses.

    One reason WB might have ended his fast is a false hope that he will be released from custody early. I seriously doubt this is going to happen and it’s due to his arrogance and unwillingness to admit he broke a law.

    I see that Hanifa and the crowd there refuse to admit he broke a law but he did.

    So why was he found guilty on one sister and not the other? Anyone care to explain that?

  17. avatar
    Stephanie January 3, 2009 at 9:21 pm #

    I’ve been following this whole thing for too long. These women are going to spend years appealing for WB. Everyone hoped they’d open their eyes when he was carted off to prison but it’s not happening. They will continue to blame “the beast”.

    Funny how WB wrote so many blogs about he didn’t want to talk to the beast. And their word fasts and so on. These women are simply picking up where he left off with the blog tantrums. They are angry because the “beast” didn’t understand their beliefs yet they spent plenty of time going on and on about how they want nothing of this world and that they don’t want to communicate with the beast. Now they are desperate to get the “beast” to release WB.

    I’m seriously yawning at my computer right now. It’s sad that these women are not going to wake up and smell the coffee.

    There are some younger women there who have chosen to not marry chosen to not leave or have a life. They rather sit around and pine for some old man who molested children.

    ok I’m done with my rant.

  18. avatar
    KM January 3, 2009 at 9:36 pm #

    Not having seen a transcript of the trial it’s just a presumption on my part that the younger girl didn’t tell the whole truth. I also don’t know if it came out that she was naked with him more than once. The jury didn’t get to see the website, pages of documents or videos. They only had what the witnesses said.

    Not that I think it’s right, but the difference in sentencing varies between judges and I really do think that in some cases admitting your guilt plays a big part. And it was just one girl in the coach case, a 16 year old. Seemed more like a relationship even though it was wrong and illegal.

    WB didn’t hide the fact that he disliked the judge, the court, the state, just about everyone except his followers who think he walks on water. Not just that he didn’t hide it but he published his hatred as well as his refusal to cooperate for months. He fasted several times to the point where family of SC people were calling the court very worried and wanting something to happen because their family members were in physical danger.

    He broke the law, he’s being punished for it and SC doesn’t like it. I know several people in prisons and it’s not a pleasant place to be. Your rights are limited for a reason, it’s not a summer camp.

    And you’re right Stephanie, it’s not going to change. He might appeal but even that doesn’t mean he’ll get released while the appeal is going on.

  19. avatar
    Quote the Law January 4, 2009 at 9:14 am #

    In reading this site, the news and the Strong City site I also find a huge discrepancy between what Mr. Bent got in sentencing and what the schoolteacher got. According to the news he did admit that he touched their breast bones. According to the news both girls said he touched them and that they were naked and he was not. Neither side admitted to any fondling or sexual contact. The witnesses and the plaintiff both said it was non-sexual in nature. What law did he break?

    So what if he hates the court system? So what if he even writes about it? What law did he break? Is that sufficient reason to send a man to jail for any additional time? So what if he fasts? What law did he or his followers break in fasting? So what if he even had sex with hundreds of young women who pine for him now? Quote the law that says that these things are illegal? It happens all the time in the US by the thousands and they are not sent to jail for it. Is that a reason to send him to jail for additional time? So what if he makes claims to something that others disagree with? So what if a few or many agree with him in it? What law was broken? Is that sufficient reason to send him to jail for additional time? So what if there are people who once were members and now disagree with what he does there? What law was broken? Is that reason to send him to jail for additional time?

    I see on this thread that some of you are quite skilled in finding out things about the legalities of this situation. So could anyone of you quote to me the law that says that what Mr. Bent did was unlawful? Where in the law does it state that it is unlawful to touch a girls breast-bone? Where in the law does it state that it is unlawful for a man fully clothed to lay next to a naked minor? Please find the statute or law that lays it plainly out. What “line” as defined by the law did he cross? Please just quote the law that states it plainly, not some interpretation of it. Lets get down to the nitty gritty on this and just state it plainly. OK?

    So a schoolteacher admits to repeated sexual penetration. The law was plain on what he did. He gets 10 months. On the other side of the coin Mr. Bent admits to something that is subject to interpretation, at best. He gets 10 years. This is not the first time that an unjust sentencing has been given. No wonder people hate the court systems and write about it. Mr. Bent is not the only one who writes about the falseness of the court systems. You can go to the internet and read many stories about unjust sentencing and unjust laws. Should they all be sent to jail for protesting what they see as an unjust system?

    One breaks an obvious law gets 10 months. One “crosses the line” in an interpretation of the law and gets 10 years. There is a huge discrepancy between them. Why? What law did this man break? Quote it please.

  20. avatar
    raycot January 4, 2009 at 9:52 am #

    Quote the Law
    4 Jan 09 at 9:14 AM

    “Please just quote the law that states it plainly, not some interpretation of it. Lets get down to the nitty gritty on this and just state it plainly. OK?”

    I think that everyone would need to see the transcripts before they could point out specifically where the line was crossed according to the law. I recall hearing that one of the girls tetified that Wayne Bent kissed her on her breast(s), but I would need to see the transcripts to be sure of this. Also Healed’s letters to the DA seemed to indicate that much more went on than just putting a hand on the sternum. I would think that the NM Mexico legislature should tighten up the law to include the prohibition of non relatives laying in bed naked with minors above a certain age so other people won’t get ideas about this. That’s sort of like having to put a warning on coffee cups specifying “Hot! Do not pour on your head!” but I suppose that’s a reflection of where our society has come to.

    I also found this information on ‘contributing to the delinquency of a minor’.

    ht tp:// w ww.conwaygreene.com/nmsu/lpext.dll?f=templates&fn=main-hit-h.htm&2.0

    (no spaces)

    30-6-3. Contributing to delinquency of minor.

    Contributing to the delinquency of a minor consists of any person committing any act or omitting the performance of any duty, which act or omission causes or tends to cause or encourage the delinquency of any person under the age of eighteen years.

    Whoever commits contributing to the delinquency of a minor is guilty of a fourth degree felony.

    14-601. Contributing to delinquency of minor; essential elements.

    For you to find the defendant guilty of contributing to the delinquency of a minor [as charged in Count __________]1, the state must prove to your satisfaction beyond a reasonable doubt each of the following elements of the crime:

    1. The defendant ______________________________________________________ ;2

    2. This [caused]3 [encouraged] __________________ (name of child) to:3

    [commit the offense of __________________4]3

    [OR]

    [refuse to obey the reasonable and lawful commands or directions of (his)3 (her) (parent)3 (parents) (guardian) (custodian) (teacher) (a person who had lawful authority over __________________ (name of child))]3

    [OR]

    [conduct (himself)3 (herself) in a manner injurious to (his)3 (her) (the) (morals)3 (health) (welfare) (of __________________ (name of child)5)]3;

    3. __________________ (name of child) was under the age of 18;

    Notice that one of the essential elements is “encouraged child to refuse to obey the reasonable and lawful commands or directions of (her)(parents).

    I hope this helps.

    You’ll probably get better answers when we can see the transcripts.

  21. avatar
    Quote the Law January 4, 2009 at 11:29 am #

    Raycott:

    OK, so according the law the delinquency in this case would have been disobedience to parents. So should everyone who allows, or worse yet encourage disobedience to parents be sent to jail for ten years? Schoolteachers have told girls how and where to get abortions without their parents consent. If the parent(s) do not believe in abortion is the schoolteacher contributing to the delinquency of a minor? Which is a greater crime, touching a sternum or abortion where both involved disobedience to parents? Many would argue with the latter being the far greater crime.

    As I was considering this yesterday I know that there are hundreds of films where minors are presented with the idea of (or “minors” are actually shown) disobedience to parents, smoking, drinking, doing drugs, portrayed having some form of sex, being absent from school, disobeying traffic laws, incest, thievery, gang related stuff and a host of other things. Should the Hollywood producers of these films be sent to jail? Of course one can argue that these things are fantasy and make-believe. However this much I do know. I do not think many films would be produced if every producer who made a film where a minor was told to disobey their parents in the film was sent to jail for ten years. What about you?

    And this I also know, the crime of allowing a minor to possibly disobey their parents that Mr. Bent allowed not deserve ten years versus 10 months for repeated sexual penetration. It is gross difference in sentencing and shows that the judge and DA were not being either logical or fair. So what was the REAL difference here? Look at from the standpoint of the law only and set aside everything that was brought out in the news and on this site that are not illegal as defined by the law. What was his real crime?

  22. avatar
    KM January 4, 2009 at 12:45 pm #

    I’m not a lawyer although I can research the statutes and laws of NM just like anyone else. There probably is a law or statute somewhere but it would take more time than I’d like to give up to find it.

    Still, regardless of whether there is any law specifically saying that an adult should not lay naked in bed with a minor it is offensive to most people for that type of behavior to happen. We all have moral compasses that keep us from doing offensive things; killing, stealing, committing adultery, etc. Some people’s moral compasses are not pointing to true north which causes them to go down paths that are against the laws of God and Nature.

    As I have mentioned before, Doctors, Medicine Elders and other Religious healers do not practice their healing without witnesses. I don’t understand the need to be completely naked and lay in a man’s bed for healing. WB said that it was intended to offend. Well, it did!

    As far as why he was convicted, until the transcripts are released we won’t really know what transpired in the courtroom. But I did find the affidavit with a synopsis of what the two girls said happened when they were first interviewed back in May. These would have been presented in court by the State Police witness.

    Synopsis of interview with A. S.:

    “A.S. said she lay naked with Wayne Bent, AKA Michael Travesser. A.S. said Mr. Bent
    kissed her lips like a husband and wife do. Mr. Bent also touched and kissed her breasts.
    A.S. said this incident occurred on or about August 2, 2006 at the Strong City Compound
    in Union County, State of New Mexico”.

    Synopsis of interview with L.S.:

    “L.S. said she lay naked with Wayne Bent and they had lain skin to skin. L.S. said Mr.
    Bent had kissed her lips and they lay chest to chest. L.S. said this incident occurred on or
    about July 31, 2006 at the Strong City Compound in Union County, State of New
    Mexico”.

    Now, apparently L.S changed her story when she realized that it was going to get her “beloved” in trouble. She even wrote letters to the DA saying nothing happened and that she wouldn’t testify. But from what I remember of the reporting at the trial, A.S did NOT change her story. Relying just on these short statements, I think it’s easy to see that there was more than just laying naked and touching a sternum for healing.

    As far as the delinquency charges, L.S. asked her parents permission to lay naked with WB, they said no. She went back to him a different time and by his own admission WB told her it was okay that time because her parents “trusted him”. That is coercion because as her pastor, messiah, whatever he calls himself today, she trusted what he said and he lied to her causing her to disobey her parents.

    As far as the coach and the 16 yo girl, I agree that the sentence doesn’t seem to be in keeping with the law but I’m not the judge and we don’t know all the facts.

    In WB’s case the jurors had only the information presented at the trial. They didn’t know about the numerous wives or the fact that he had consummated with other young woman. The charges had nothing to do with his freedom to practice his religion. This trial was about an older man laying in his bed with young, naked girls. Period!

  23. avatar
    raycot January 4, 2009 at 2:13 pm #

    Quote the Law
    4 Jan 09 at 11:29 AM

    “OK, so according the law the delinquency in this case would have been disobedience to parents.”

    Without the transcripts I’m just guessing at this point, but that is one possible reason for a conviction on a delinquency of a minor charge according to that. I have enough direct information to form an opinion for myself that Wayne is at least guilty of that in both cases.

    “So should everyone who allows, or worse yet encourage disobedience to parents be sent to jail for ten years?”

    It depends on the seriousness of the results of the disobedience, in which case other charges will also be involved… but generally, by itself, I would say no. I only focused on finding information on that law because it seemed to me that many people were unaware of what “contributing to the delinquency of a minor” really was.

    The DA’s office does not have unlimited funds or manpower to prosecute. There would have to something else more serious involved for it to be reasonable for the DA to pursue prosecution. Encouraging a minor to not do the dishes would not likely meet the standard of reasonableness, while causing the result of a minor laying naked in bed with an adult male would. Nobody disputes that Wayne was laying in bed with naked minor females. Since he was in court for these more serious charges, the delinquency charges naturally came right along with them.

    “Schoolteachers have told girls how and where to get abortions without their parents consent. If the parent(s) do not believe in abortion is the schoolteacher contributing to the delinquency of a minor?”

    I personally think this is wrong but…not according to the law if the states allow that. The child’s so-called right to abortion trumps any parental authority to prohibit it.

    “Should the Hollywood producers of these films be sent to jail?”

    I personally think that might be satisfying to see happen but…The law doesn’t hold them accountable for their role. They are not in a position of authority and the courts have decided that first amendment issues trump any duty they might have to the child, parents, or society although they still have some limitations that they have to comply with.

    “And this I also know, the crime of allowing a minor to possibly disobey their parents that Mr. Bent allowed not deserve ten years versus 10 months for repeated sexual penetration.”

    These weren’t the only charges that Wayne was convicted of…and I agree that 10 months seems way too lenient a sentence for that other person.

    “Look at from the standpoint of the law only and set aside everything that was brought out in the news and on this site that are not illegal as defined by the law. What was his real crime?”

    Well, in my opinion, his real crimes were at least two counts of criminal sexual contact with a minor and at least two counts of contributing to the delinquency of minors. But I’ve read a lot about his sexual escapades and other things on his website over the years, so I admit that might be coloring my judgement. When the transcripts are available I’ll be able to better answer that for myself…not that my opinion makes any difference.

  24. avatar
    Quote the Law January 4, 2009 at 2:37 pm #

    KM:

    I know these things have no bearing on this particular case, but murderers sometimes get less time than he did. Cheney shot a man in the face with a shotgun and it hardly got a passing glance in the news. A year or two ago the news reported that Bush and company started the war in Iraq based on 935 lies. How much money, misery and death have been caused by those 935 lies? Why haven’t any charges been filed?

    It seems that “justice” is determined by how much money a person has for a lawyer or who their lawyer is or who they are in politics or what power they can sway over the judge and DA. If they admit “guilt” after they are caught, they get a lesser sentence as if that made the situation better. What if they had never got caught? Would they have come forward and still admitted it? Who knows? But the question still remains. Even if a person is innocent if they plead guilty they will get a lesser sentence than if they plead innocent and are found guilty. It is like people are forced in certain situations to admit guilt where there is none. I know of instances like this from the internet.

    Whether or not Mr. Bent had sexual relations with multiple women is not pertinent to the case, since what they did was not illegal as long as they are over the age of 18. No law was broken, therefore it does not apply. Many may find it offensive, but the fact remains that according to the strict letter of the law that has no bearing in this case. It was right to not admit this information.

    According to the strict letter of the law all that I can find so far that he may have done (and that remains doubtful) is allow these two girls to do something that their parents did not know about at the time.

    The reason I say it is doubtful is because the parents did not come forward for quite some length of time with any charges. I am not even sure that they are the ones who brought charges. From what I understand at the time that the instance in question happened the parents and Mr. Bent were on different terms. Mr. Bent states this on his website. It was later that they decided they were not in agreement with it. Who or what changed their minds? And if they were in agreement with it at the time, then wasn’t Mr. Bent acting in good faith? And if he was acting in good faith, was the strict letter of the law broken in regards to causing the girls to disobey their parents?

    L.S. and A.S. both said that Mr. Bent was fully clothed and nothing sexual happened. Kissing of the areola of the breast can obviously be taken as sexual. The breast can refer to the entire chest area not a specific part of the chest such as the areola of the breast. If it was nonsexual by A.S. testimony then it was not her areola.

    Again I ask what was this mans crime to receive 10 years? No one knows exactly why, but the judge. It sounds like an arbitrary decision that the judge made to send a message to all religions of the land. This is alluded to by the judges statements in court.

    The bottom line is this. If the particular judge approves it, even if it is illegal, is has just become legal and you can go free. If the particular judge disapproves of it, even if it is legal, it has just become illegal and you can get the maximum sentence in order to make the point.

    Quote the Law to prove a law was broken. I do not think it exists.

  25. avatar
    raycot January 4, 2009 at 2:49 pm #

    “Quote the Law to prove a law was broken. I do not think it exists.”

    Well that would make you wrong then 😀

    Like ours, your opinion is irrelevant.

  26. avatar
    raycot January 4, 2009 at 2:57 pm #

    Quote the law. Just in case you haven’t actually seen this yet…

    30-9-13. Criminal sexual contact of a minor.
    A. Criminal sexual contact of a minor is the unlawful and intentional touching of or applying force to the intimate parts of a minor or the unlawful and intentional causing of a minor to touch one’s intimate parts. For the purposes of this section, “intimate parts” means the primary genital area, groin, buttocks, anus or breast.

    B. Criminal sexual contact of a minor in the second degree consists of all criminal sexual contact of the unclothed intimate parts of a minor perpetrated:
    (1) on a child under thirteen years of age; or
    (2) on a child thirteen to eighteen years of age when:

    (a) the perpetrator is in a position of authority over the child and uses that authority to coerce the child to submit;
    (b) the perpetrator uses force or coercion that results in personal injury to the child;
    (c) the perpetrator uses force or coercion and is aided or abetted by one or more persons; or
    (d) the perpetrator is armed with a deadly weapon.
    Whoever commits criminal sexual contact of a minor in the second degree is guilty of a second degree felony for a sexual offense against a child and, notwithstanding the provisions of Section 31-18-15 NMSA 1978, shall be sentenced to a minimum term of imprisonment of three years, which shall not be suspended or deferred. The imposition of a minimum, mandatory term of imprisonment pursuant to the provisions of this subsection shall not be interpreted to preclude the imposition of sentencing enhancements pursuant to the provisions of Sections 31-18-17, 31-18-25 and 31-18-26 NMSA 1978.

    You also might want to read through the archives of documents from the Strong City website that are available on this site or at Strongcity2.info.

  27. avatar
    KM January 4, 2009 at 3:29 pm #

    I agree, what happened between consenting adults whether I find it offensive or not has no bearing on this case. I just added that because I think that many people thought the jury knew that or should have been told about it. That would have definitely tainted the jury.

    I’ve never been in a cult so I can’t imagine the kind of mind control that many say happens when you are in one. But if there is intensive mind control and you break free I imagine that it would take a long time to fully come to your senses. From what I’ve read of this particular case it seems that until the time that the younger girl disobeyed them by laying naked with WB they didn’t see any problem. It was almost like that particular incident opened their eyes and then they got angry. Changing of the mind happens frequently which is why there are statutes of limitations on some crimes. Even if he was acting in “good faith” at the time does that mean that what he did was okay?

    I don’t know who reported what but it sounds like several agencies were involved in the investigation.
    The charges were actually filed by the state partly based on what the girls said in the safe room interviews on April 23, 2008. This is from the State Police News Release page: “The arrest warrant was approved by District Attorney Donald Gallegos after a 3 week investigation by State Police, the New Mexico Children, Youth and Families Department and the Union County Sheriff’s Department.
    The investigation began after allegations of inappropriate contact and behavior were brought to the attention of authorities”.

    “L.S. and A.S. both said that Mr. Bent was fully clothed and nothing sexual happened”. I’ve heard people saying that’s what they said but not having seen a transcript I don’t know for sure if that’s what they said at the trial. What they said in the safe room interview was probably entered as evidence. If they said something different at the trial does that negate what they said 8 months ago?

    Is it fair? Probably not, but life is not always fair. Where I live people drink and drive daily and don’t get caught or if they get caught they are soon set free to go do it again. When they finally hurt or kill someone they get punished but the punishment doesn’t always fit the crime. Unfortunately that’s the way our system works. It’s not perfect but it’s what we have. That’s the reason the appeals courts are set up and it’s the right of everyone who is convicted to appeal. Sort of like checks and balances.

    WB got a judge who went by the book and gave him the max. But then he suspended part of it, no one knows why. Obviously the judge who sentenced the coach was more lenient.

    Based on the safe room interviews I do think WB broke the law by letting the girls lie naked in his bed and touching them inappropriately for whatever reason. He could have just as easily done the touching/healing in another room with them fully clothed and saved himself and the girls a lot of trouble. Based on what they heard the jury also thought he broke the law at least on the 3 counts. The judge sentenced him because the jury convicted him. If he appeals the conviction maybe it will be thrown out but it’s a merry go round so who knows what will happen.

  28. avatar
    Quote the Law January 4, 2009 at 3:43 pm #

    Raycot:

    If you read my response to KM, it answers most of your thoughts.

    Raycot:

    The reasons I gave in my response to KM are why I prefer to go by the strict wording of the law rather than some interpretation of a judge. And as you admit the state will over-ride the judgments and decisions of the parents where it wants too. But that is for some bureaucrat behind a desk to decide rather than someone like Mr. Bent. If one man decides it is OK then it is. But if another decides it is not OK then it is not? In one instance a man behind a desk overrides the parents because he thinks it is right. What if L.S. wanted to trump her parent’s decisions in order to allow Mr. Bent to lay his hand on her naked chest? Should the state uphold her rights of a hand on her body exactly as the state upholds a girl’s choice with her body and a baby in the womb over her parents? Do you see the injustice in this?

    If a politician or some “official” makes these kinds of decisions they are OK. But woe to a private citizen who would make the same kind of decision on a lesser “crime” like touching a girl’s sternum. What makes one man the ruler over another’s body in one way but not another? Who decides?

    By the statements on the Strong City site I do see that the judge was definitely sending a strong message to all religions of the land that they need to toe the line or else. The state has just become the judge of what is moral or immoral and you have no leg to stand on. A lot of what is decided as moral or immoral is based on money rather than any ethics. My examples to you and KM show that.

    If we were to go back to the original law of the land, i.e. the Constitution, the judge in this case should be sentenced to prison for sending a man that follows his religious convictions to prison for ten years. He was following his religious convictions rather than some man made law that prohibits his religious convictions. Have you ever read, “Congress shall make NO law . . . . “?

    Different cultures have different time frames and customs for marriage. I just read a book about the Mongols who betrothed children as early as nine. They consummated their marriage as soon as the girl started her menstrual cycle. It was not based on age, but on her physical coming into womanhood. Some Africans (from what I understand) jumped over a stick to get married. Jews consummate the marriage and afterwards have the wedding ceremony. Is it the states job to determine what a man’s religious convictions are in this regard? Evidently many think so. I disagree.

    What judge married Adam and Eve? What piece of paper did they get? Were they over a certain number of years? According to the bible it was right after they were created that they got “married”. In stature and physical attributes they were probably mature. But in number of days alive I doubt that they were 18 years. Go figure that one out.

    All that aside, until I see the law quoted that Mr. Bent broke I will insist that by the strict letter of the law no law was broken. An innocent man was sent to jail to enforce in everyone’s mind that the state can dictate to you what you can practice or not practice in your particular religion. Don’t cross their imaginary line that changes according to their whims.

  29. avatar
    Quote the Law January 4, 2009 at 4:10 pm #

    Raycot:

    “For the purposes of this section, “intimate parts” means the primary genital area, groin, buttocks, anus or breast.”

    By A.S., L.S. and Mr. Bents testimony this did not happen. They all agreed that it was not sexual. According to Sarah Montoya’s demonstration in court with a Barbie doll it was high up on the chest not low down. Mr. Bent stated that he made sure that he did not touch any fatty areas of the breast. The witnesses did not disagree.

    By the strict letter of the law nothing happened.

    I still state that it was an arbitrary decision by the judge (by his own words) that the state can dictate what you can do and not do in your religion if it offends someone. He said that plainly.

    Bill of Rights:

    First Amendment:

    “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; …”

    If in my particular religion if I (and the girl that I want to marry believes the same) choose to believe that a man and woman can marry when the girl comes into womanhood then it should be our right to do so. However I am prohibited from exercising my religious freedom because the state can override it. If in my religion I believe (and the other person too believes the same) that healing can come to someone from the laying on of hands to their naked body then I should be able to do so. What if they had a disease of the loins? What if they had a disease to the anus? Some cultures allow it. But in America the land of the “free” where one is allowed “freedom of religion” it is prohibited and one can be sent to jail. In Mr. Bent’s case he was healing their heart with a hand to the sternum, not their intimate parts. L.S. appears to have been healed. She goes by that name from the change. A.S. was not.

    Yet on the other hand if they get a license from the state (pay someone some money to do this) or some bureaucrat or judge approves it then it is OK?

    A lot more people than you may know see the injustice in these things when they think it through. But most are forced into submission to the state from fear of reprisal or monetary fines if they should stand up in opposition to the draconian measures this land has resorted to.

    This land is not free anymore. If it is not licensed, controlled or regulated (or you pay lots of money to get your way) in some form it is not legal. period

  30. avatar
    Juror January 4, 2009 at 4:15 pm #

    Ouote the Law

    Then why did WB say ” I knew this was touble and I knew i was going to end up there” in court??
    Beside we never looked at religion, we looked at the law.

  31. avatar
    raycot January 4, 2009 at 4:16 pm #

    “Based on what they heard the jury also thought he broke the law at least on the 3 counts.”

    KM

    4 Jan 09 at 3:29 PM

    Yes, and that’s the key. It doesn’t matter what the mob thinks. It matters what the jury thought about the evidence that was presented. Innocent or guilty beyond a reasonable doubt…key word being ‘reasonable.’ That’s our system. If you allow a minor to lay NAKED in your BED, with you, ALONE, you have already stacked the deck against yourself. I don’t care who you are.

    If the jury had found out that Wayne’s ‘religious ceremonies’ often ultimately resulted in sexual intercourse he would have been in even worse shape than he was. That information would have put it into context for sure. He wasn’t just some kindly old celibate “religious” man.

    The fact that the jury found him not guilty on one of the counts of criminal sexual contact indicates to me that the jury bent over backwards to try to be fair in their assessment of the evidence and to follow the law as written.

  32. avatar
    Johnny D. Miller January 4, 2009 at 4:33 pm #

    I’ve noticed that the Strong City Website is allowing comments from the public now, providing that you register and log in to state your views and opinions. I think those who desire to speak with them, to please check them out, and share your heart. Perhaps it will be a good opportunity to speak with them now, as they have opened up this door at this time.

  33. avatar
    Juror January 4, 2009 at 4:47 pm #

    If I had known what I know now about this man, he would have been convicted of all 4 counts, The reason I was ok with only 3 counts is that Healed will be 18 soon and she is so brain washed my that creature I dont think there is any help for her she will go back to SC and continue where she left off in quest to be his wife.

    We all had to agree on the verdict and there was only one person that was at first against guitly on all 4 charges

  34. avatar
    raycot January 4, 2009 at 4:54 pm #

    “And as you admit the state will over-ride the judgments and decisions of the parents where it wants too. But that is for some bureaucrat behind a desk to decide rather than someone like Mr. Bent. If one man decides it is OK then it is. But if another decides it is not OK then it is not? In one instance a man behind a desk overrides the parents because he thinks it is right.”

    Well, in theory, the bureaucrat is making the decisions based on the will of the people. That’s our system. I don’t like it when the bureaucrat is unelected, such as Judges on the USSC. I also don’t think it is wise to allow individuals to decide the law for themselves on the spot, as that would be anarchy.

    “What if L.S. wanted to trump her parent’s decisions in order to allow Mr. Bent to lay his hand on her naked chest? Should the state uphold her rights of a hand on her body exactly as the state upholds a girl’s choice with her body and a baby in the womb over her parents? Do you see the injustice in this?”

    The age of consent laws can be changed if you can convince enough people to agree with you.

    I do see the injustice in abortion. That is one of the issues that the Supreme Court has (wrongly in my opinion) removed from the jurisdiction of the people.

    “If a politician or some “official” makes these kinds of decisions they are OK. But woe to a private citizen who would make the same kind of decision on a lesser “crime” like touching a girl’s sternum. What makes one man the ruler over another’s body in one way but not another? Who decides?”

    I think you are forgetting about society’s interest in protecting the child from sexual exploitation. Next you will tell me that allowing a child to have an abortion can also cause her serious harm and could be described as exploitation, and I’ll agree with you.

    “The state has just become the judge of what is moral or immoral and you have no leg to stand on.”

    This is true. See USSC Lawrence vs Texas.

    “If we were to go back to the original law of the land, i.e. the Constitution, the judge in this case should be sentenced to prison for sending a man that follows his religious convictions to prison for ten years. He was following his religious convictions rather than some man made law that prohibits his religious convictions. Have you ever read, “Congress shall make NO law . . . . “?

    If a man’s religious convictions call him to sacrfice humans, should it be legal for him to murder people? Of course not. One person’s right to life trumps the others freedom of religion. One is always free in their beliefs, usually free in their speech, but not always free in their actions.

    “Different cultures have different time frames and customs for marriage. I just read a book about the Mongols who betrothed children as early as nine. They consummated their marriage as soon as the girl started her menstrual cycle. It was not based on age, but on her physical coming into womanhood. Some Africans (from what I understand) jumped over a stick to get married. Jews consummate the marriage and afterwards have the wedding ceremony. Is it the states job to determine what a man’s religious convictions are in this regard? Evidently many think so. I disagree. ”

    Well persuade enough people to agree with you, or get the right judge in your pocket, and you can change the law. That’s our system.

    “All that aside, until I see the law quoted that Mr. Bent broke I will insist that by the strict letter of the law no law was broken. An innocent man was sent to jail to enforce in everyone’s mind that the state can dictate to you what you can practice or not practice in your particular religion. Don’t cross their imaginary line that changes according to their whims.”

    Based on the evidence that I have seen regarding Wayne Bent (most of it from himself and others at SC) I am inclinded to believe, based on a preponderance of the evidence, that he is guilty. I won’t be able to make a judgement from the perspective of the jury until I see the transcript.

  35. avatar
    Sam Redman January 4, 2009 at 7:24 pm #

    This case was literally reduced to the determination of what area was covered by the width of Wayne Bent’s hand. It’s really that simple.

    But, prior to discussing the nuances of this conviction, it is important to realize that any facts which we would consider about this particular court case are irrelevant to the circumstances in any other random case (like that of the high school coach), just because that one was coincidentally decided in the same week. Many people all over the country are convicted and sentenced unfairly and many others are declared innocent who should be serving time… but cases unrelated to each other are most often not able to be compared logically (or legally).

    About the specifics of this trial, the law as quoted above by Raycot is quite specific… an adult in New Mexico can’t intentionally touch “the intimate parts of a minor” (which specifically includes the breast). Unfortunately for Bent’s defense, they included in their summary a very specific video (as an illustration of his typical hand placement), which showed Wayne Bent putting his hand repeatedly on the so-called “sternum” of many of his clothed followers (this video is available on the Mirror site). In every one of those video illustrated instances… his hand (if placed on a naked chest) would have touched a female breast. Sure, it’s a matter of a technicality… but that’s the nature of our laws. For Bent to have merely touched the “breast-bone” or “sternum,” he would have probably needed to have placed his hand in a vertical position (like a karate chop)… the sternum is only about one-inch wide, a narrow area where it would have been almost impossible to limit contact. His hand in all of those video examples was placed flat on the various persons’ chests at an angle from 30 to 45 degrees crossing both breasts… which is where common sense (what a jury is told to use) would indicate that a hand would be placed on the chest. The jury made the right call. He admitted to placing his hand on the girl’s naked chests. So, it was most logical to conclude that when he did what he admitted to, he violated the law, which says an adult can’t touch a naked child’s breast.

    I am a documentary evidence analyst by profession. The defense moved to have most documents related to the case ruled inadmissible. She was correct, at least partially, in that tactic. Having more documents relevant to this case admitted into the trial would not have helped Bent’s position. Although I was on the witness list for the prosecution (not called, because defense motions kept such documents out), prior to this case going to trial, I had the chance to have a conversation with Bent. I had the opportunity to provide him with my advice concerning what I felt was his best defensive approach. I told him that I believed that he should plead guilty (he had earlier been offered a plea bargain) and that he should depend on the leniency of the court in consideration of his acceptance of the responsibility for what he had done (out of ignorance of the law). He told me that he was not interested in that kind of a deal. But, ironically, what I advised him is similar to what the admitted rapist did… he pleaded guilty and relied on the court for a lenient sentence. A good tactic.

    More than likely, had Bent pleaded guilt and accepted responsibility (either taken the plea bargain or relied on the court), he would have had a similar deal. The court system is a tactical game of sorts… one of the many reasons you need to get the very best legal representation. The law is very specific… if you violate it and then testimony (or your own admission) proves that, you run the risk of being severely punished with a jury conviction. Bent knew that he had violated the law. His position all along was that doing so was to cause him to be judged accordingly (although he maintained that the system was unfair or evil). It is significant that Bent made it clear that he was not interested in tactical methods which would have avoided harsh punishment.

    — Sam

  36. avatar
    Juror January 4, 2009 at 7:51 pm #

    Sam… Was there alot of witnesses on the list that were never called on? There was one that was called that was very confussing I had no idea what he was doing or saying I was totally lost I think the other jurors were too I think you know who im talking about if you were at the trial. Or were you allowed to sit in the court? I would have loved to hear from some of the former members sinse there were currant ones and also what you had to say. I know now why they kept asking if WB was a leader and they pretty much said no but they could never tell what they did on the land. And it was only obvious that he has total control over the followers. So basically to me they lied under oath.

    Thanks for all the information that you have all posted on this site

  37. avatar
    KM January 4, 2009 at 10:06 pm #

    Months ago I might have had sympathy toward the man had he said that yes, he did let the girls get in his bed and he did put his hand on their sternum and might have accidently touched parts of their breast but it was for healing not sex and looking back at it, he shouldn’t have done it the way he did.

    But in his arrogance he thought that the whole world would see him in the National Geo movie and know that he was the messiah. When that backfired and he got arrested he started blaming everyone but himself, even more arrogantly comparing himself and his trial to Jesus’ crucifixion. And then as the trial got closer instead of standing firm in what he professed to believe he backtracked. In a matter of months he went from the messiah to just a brother. He has shown no respect for others yet expects them to respect him. He just can’t get his mind around the fact that people don’t believe what he says to be the truth.

    A true man or woman of God has respect for ALL people and can, without giving up their own beliefs, offer goodwill to people of other religions or belief systems.

    Mother Teresa worked with the poorest of the poor in India and many other countries and never once refused to take care of someone because they weren’t Catholic. She did not try to convert anyone to the Catholic faith or ask that they believe she was a great and wonderful person. She dressed simply and on the outside looked the same as all the sisters in her order. She never asked for money or prestige for herself, anything she was given went to the poor. She didn’t sit in a chair and watch others do the work but worked side by side with people of all faiths to aid the poor and dying.

    She wrote “The same loving hand that has created you has created me. If he is your Father he must be my Father also. We all belong to the same family. Hindus, Muslims and all people are our brothers and sisters. They too are the children of God”.

    I don’t see that attitude in Wayne Bent or his followers. Quite the opposite as we have all been condemned and sentenced by him to eternal damnation, not once but several times in the various essays he wrote.

    Now they plead for our support and are “allowing” our comments on their site. They ask for us to stand with them and fight the state because an “innocent” man was convicted. A week ago the state was the beast and we were all controlled by the beast.

    So Johnny, although I see your point about them opening a door I won’t be writing on their website at this point because they don’t really want to listen to what I have to say. And even though you don’t know me well I think you know that if I felt drawn to support a cause I would go the extra mile to do so.

    If they want the support of others they need to come out of their stronghold and talk to their families and other people face to face. They need to listen to what others have to say and intelligently debate them.

    I challenge the people at SC to convince us that what their leader did was NOT wrong. Not with the same old words and condemnations but with clear and rational thinking. Search the Bible, search the law books, make your case. Then maybe someone or even many people will listen to you. As it stands now everything you are saying we’ve heard over and over from Wayne Bent’s mouth or pen. It’s not convincing, it sounds irrational and it sounds just like Wayne Bent put the words in your mouth.

    So try to convince us but don’t continue to sing the same old song. It’s tiring and I for one am not interested in hearing it anymore. And maybe, just maybe, if you sing a new song and listen to outsiders you’ll start to see as many of us have seen that all was not right in SC.

  38. avatar
    KM January 4, 2009 at 10:21 pm #

    Juror, I’m sure Sam will respond tomorrow if not later tonight. I’m on the same time zone as you are but I think he’s an hour earlier so it’s after midnight where he lives.

    Briefly though, there were quite a few witnesses called, you probably passed them several times during the days you were on the jury. For various reasons many were not called to testify. It would have been interesting for you to hear from former members but I think the judge thought it was not relevant info to the particular case you were hearing.

    Thanks again for giving your time to serve on the jury.

  39. avatar
    Quote the Law January 4, 2009 at 10:38 pm #

    From http://www.alamogordonews.com/ci_11333052 in regards to Jame Javier Cruz who was sentenced the day before Mr. Bent was to 10 months on work release for 3 counts of criminal sexual penetration of a 16 year old student of his.

    “District Attorney Scot Key said he was happy with Judge Waylon Counts decision in sentencing Cruz.

    “The sentence balanced all the interests that he heard from and he came up with a sentence that satisfies all the different people and philosophies,” Key said. “I am happy with the judge’s decision.”

    So 10 months work release for criminal sexual penetration of a 16 year old “satisfies ALL the different people AND philosophies”? And so are we also to suppose that Mr. Bent’s sentence of ten years “satisfies ALL the different people AND philosophies” in his case too? From the testimonies on the Strong City site, I can see that this is not even close. Even some on this site have questioned the sentencing of both in light of each other.

  40. avatar
    Casidi January 4, 2009 at 10:39 pm #

    You know what I find incredibly interesting is how they are now addressing Wayne. They are calling him “brother”, “friend” and Wayne instead of “Michael”. Even Wayne’s postings since the trial are all signed “Wayne Bent aka Michael Travesser”. It really seems that they are trying to tone down the leader/messiah claims. I do believe an appeal is coming soon.

  41. avatar
    Quote the Law January 4, 2009 at 11:14 pm #

    Sam:

    You said, “But, prior to discussing the nuances of this conviction, it is important to realize that any facts which we would consider about this particular court case are irrelevant to the circumstances in any other random case (like that of the high school coach), just because that one was coincidentally decided in the same week. … but cases unrelated to each other are most often not able to be compared logically (or legally).”

    This is severe double standard logic passed off as truth. These two cases are “unrelated to each other”? They are most related in every way. Both involved a person in a position of authority. Both involved a minor of the same age. Both admitted to what they did. Both were found guilty. Both were sentenced EXCEPT where the crime was well within the specific wording of the law the punishment was 10 months and the “crime” in the other was based (by your words) on a “technicality” which received a sentence of ten years. And you claim they are “unrelated”?

    You also said, “About the specifics of this trial, the law as quoted above by Raycot is quite specific… an adult in New Mexico can’t intentionally touch “the intimate parts of a minor” (which specifically includes the breast).”

    Both girls testified that he did not touch them on any intimate area as defined by the law. Both girls said it was not sexual. And you still make this claim based on a “technicality” and “logic”?

    “The court system is a tactical game of sorts… one of the many reasons you need to get the very best legal representation. “

    So this is all a “game” of “tactics”? Men’s lives and religious freedoms are subject to a “game” and “tactics” rather than truth and how powerful the lawyer is? So by your own words it is not a question of ethics or truth but “tactics” that will decide the guilt or innocence of someone and their sentence in this “game”? Men may do this, but God does not play such games or tactics. You cannot get a get out of jail free card for playing the “game” correctly with God or having the very best lawyer. Heaven does not work that way.

    “It is significant that Bent made it clear that he was not interested in tactical methods which would have avoided harsh punishment.”

    He was not interested in admissions of guilt where none was, even by the exact specifics of the law. Your own words prove that he was innocent when you state that the proof of guilt was based upon a supposition rather than the sworn testimony of the witnesses. So by your admission, a technicality of supposition over rides sworn testimony. And furthermore tactics win the approval of the court when one plays by their rules of the game rather than truth. Your logic is severely flawed at best.

  42. avatar
    Quote the Law January 4, 2009 at 11:51 pm #

    Raycot:

    You said, “If a man’s religious convictions call him to sacrfice humans, should it be legal for him to murder people? Of course not. One person’s right to life trumps the others freedom of religion. One is always free in their beliefs, usually free in their speech, but not always free in their actions.”

    You use an extreme example to try and disprove a religious principle that is stated in the First Amendment of the Constitution. The Constitution does not allow for murder under a religious guise. But the way a man and woman marry and how religious healing services are carried are covered by it. But they are not anymore. The Constitution is not allowed in the court systems as a safeguard for personal or religious freedoms anymore. You say one is always free in their beliefs and “usually” free in their speech. This is not true either. If it was true then why was Mr. Bent convicted for a religious healing service where both girls stated that nothing sexual happened?

    “Well persuade enough people to agree with you, or get the right judge in your pocket, and you can change the law. That’s our system.”

    Why should I persuade “enough” people or get a right judge in my pocket to change the law BACK to what it originally was? You are missing that part. See by your own admissions the laws are wrong and need correcting, but need a majority vote before change can occur. Would you state this the same way if the law stated that everyone who would not allow their underage daughter to have an abortion should be sent to prison for ten years and you happened to have such a daughter? Would you be happy with a response like, “get the law changed by majority vote or get the right judge in your pocket”? Or would you be man enough to stand up and state that the law was wrong and that you were in disagreement with the law regardless how many did or did not support it?

    That is part of my point here. The laws of the land are upside down. The religious freedom to decide for oneself what is moral or immoral is gone by your own admission. So the state is to be our conscience now? not God? And if the states morality allows a girl to get an abortion but refuses her to be touched on the naked chest for healing, then our conscience should be the same?

    I cannot go there. And those who have a conscience before God of what is true and moral cannot either. This case proves that whoever is caught or told upon will be punished severely even to the full extent of the law, even if no law was broken.

  43. avatar
    ron January 5, 2009 at 5:33 am #

    Are we gonna keep comparing apples to horseapples?
    Religious thinking has allowed alot of pain, torture, and death over the centuries. Ever heard of common sense? Hot stove = burn, naked jailbait = prison.

  44. avatar
    Jan January 5, 2009 at 6:48 am #

    Another important factor is that Wayne Bent said to the press right after he was found guilty (Taos News video features Wayne Bent verdict & interviews – here on Beyond 90 Seconds) that all of this was done on purpose. He was told to do what he did to offend our world, to make us mad and convict him. He even said that he wrote about it a year ago. It was his very own special “prophecy.”

    So it would seem that day, Wayne was very pleased and accepting of the jury verdict. In fact if the jury would not have found him guilty what would have become of his prophecy?

    By the statements Wayne made on that day he knew full well he had broken the law and did it on purpose. And yet his people still ramble on about how he did nothing wrong.

    I have never seen so many people that like to twist and turn events always making them be what now serves their immediate purpose. The Court has spoken and the Judge has given his sentence, maybe the people at Strong City should perhaps begin to try and deal with this as a fact. And apparently one their leader indeed predicted.

  45. avatar
    Mr. Bojangles January 5, 2009 at 8:22 am #

    Juror:
    Thanks for your insights. It’s fascinating to know what you were told and not told. Would you mind being more specific about the witness you found confusing? If you feel uncomfortable mentioning his name can you tell us the basic content of his testimony? Did other jury members feel the same? And, yes, let me add my thanks for serving.

  46. avatar
    KM January 5, 2009 at 8:28 am #

    So many good thoughts in the posts above. Casidi and the ever changing name and status of WB. Although it seems from some of the comments on their website that a few people didn’t get that memo.

    And Ron, “Ever heard of common sense? Hot stove = burn, naked jailbait = prison”.

    Jan, absolutely! Perhaps the one thing that he hasn’t wavered in was that God told him to do it to offend our world and that he prophesied about it. Well, shoot, he even wrote about it on a tissue the morning he was convicted. Except he did get the numbers wrong.

    Danielle wrote “Can anyone discern between truth and error anymore? Is everyone so brainwashed and only able to follow their spoon-fed perceptions of reality these days, that they have lost all of their powerful God-given reasoning skills”? She obviously doesn’t see herself in those words. And how old is she? Barely a woman herself and she’s already given herself, body and soul, to a man who has taken numerous women for his pleasure. Does she consider what her future holds? I guess not since they are convinced there will be no future. So sad that a young woman doesn’t have hopes and dreams for a life filled with love from one man and maybe the gift of children.

    Mesha wrote “Those who really believe and trust in the God in heaven do not have those fears.  Why bother having a god if he can not protect you…in and from everything”? Then why are you so upset and want people to stand with you? Is your god not protecting you from everything? My God is with me always, through the good and bad that being alive entails. And I have no fears of the future because I know when my time on earth is over I have a place waiting for me in Heaven.

    These people are still in denial which is the reason I won’t post on their website. They don’t want to have a rational discussion. They only want you to agree with them and I don’t agree with them. I challenge them again to get out of their comfort zone and talk to others face to face.

    If they would step back and look at what their “leader” turned “brother” has said over the past months they wouldn’t be blaming the judge and jury, they’d be saying that it was meant to happen, it was prophesied by “whatever his name is today” and there isn’t a thing we can do about it because God planned it.

    I guess they didn’t get the memo on that either.

  47. avatar
    Sam Redman January 5, 2009 at 10:42 am #

    To “Juror” – Yes, there are often many witnesses called, but sometimes quite a few are never used (often because of various motions, by either the prosecution or the defense, keeping them off the stand). Prospective witnesses are generally not allowed in the courtroom during a trial, because hearing testimony previous to their own might affect or prejudice what they would say.

    I found your comment interesting about the testimony (and the defense position) that Wayne Bent was not the leader, when the reality was that he was probably more in control of that group than in any situation most people would ever encounter. Basing a defense strategy around a false position (or several) is a very risky approach and I think this example characterizes why the defense failed (something I might discuss in detail later).

    — Sam

  48. avatar
    Sam Redman January 5, 2009 at 10:50 am #

    To “Quote the Law” – you have mistaken me for someone who believes that Bent got an appropriate sentence. If you would search on this website (just review the comments on previous articles), you will see that prior to the trial, I strongly advocated that Bent be given probation and that he should not have to serve any jail time. However, the sentence he did receive is within the bounds of legal reasonability for a unrepentant convicted sex offender and so the prospects of it being overturned are now virtually nonexistent. But, I personally wished for him to have leniency and to be able to serve his punishment from his home (and I presented my arguments accordingly during the two weeks after the verdict and prior to the sentencing date, which was the proper time to get such pleas voiced… not now).

    And yes, logically (conversationally) we might wish to compare what happened in this case to the one where the guy pleaded guilty, but while that kind of argument might be useful in an effort to advocate changes in the legal system (I suggest you get started on that if you really care), the similarities honestly have no use (legally) in consideration of whether this sentencing was appropriate.

    You made the assertion that my “logic is severely flawed at best.” But, it’s not my logic. You see, I could actually agree with you on your premise, if you change that statement to the “logic of ‘the system’ is severely flawed.” I am merely describing the way the system works. It is indeed a “game,” and a very serious one at that, involving the prospect of personal freedoms being lost and varying amounts of time possibly spent in prison (and even lives being lost by execution), all depending on how well that “game” is played. The law has various technicalities and those strange detailed particulars about the way a given law is written are what must be understood by the defense in such a way that they can design an approach which will enable their client to either be found not guilty or to get the lightest punishment possible.

    About your comments about the testimony of the witnesses and how the jury should have responded, you seem to have a basic misunderstanding about what a jury does and how our trials work. The role of the jury is not to compile or collect the various statements of witnesses. That’s the role of the court clerk preparing the trial transcript. The jury instead is known as the “triers of fact.” This means they simply are the determiners of the truth. They listen to witnesses and based on such things as intuition and best judgment (inclinations, reason and even opinion) they decide whether what was testified was “the truth.” Sometimes it’s as simple as what is colloquially known as “the smell test.” In spite of a witness making a statement which seems to indicate something, even assertively (such as Wayne Bent didn’t touch a breast), the jury must decide whether such a testimony is credible (remember the old “I’m not buying it” line your mother gave you when you told about how the cookies disappeared). Bent admitted on the witness stand that he put his hand on the girl’s naked chests. Whatever the girls said about that (or anything) could have been disregarded by the jury (they have that prerogative and direction) because those girls might have shown signs of having been coached and the jury had the testimony of the accused on that subject. The question came down to whether Bent could have (or would have) put his hand only on the one inch wide sternum bone. Common sense (and the helpful video provided by the defense) showed that any testimony that the breasts weren’t touched wasn’t believable. I think that once that “sternum” phrase was introduced, the credibility was lost right then. It just has the ring of a contrived “explanation.” In my opinion, that is another example of what was a defense failure, permitting that word usage as a part of the strategy (yes, they are the one’s who made this into a technical discussion, employing an anatomical term not in the conventional vernacular). They invited the concept of width comparisons… they reduced it to a jury decision regarding whether the width of a man’s hand would have allowed merely touching such a narrow location and if it made sense that would someone just limit their touch to the “sternum”. If they only could have shown a video of him just touching sternums, it would have been believable that someone would have ever conducted such a strange practice… but, they offered one showing something else.

    Back in May of 2008, in several writings in preparing for the Grand Jury, Bent first introduced the concept of the “sternum” touching (Bent is actually the architect of his own defense tactic). I immediately called it out in several detailed postings on the internet (those are available if you would be interested) as a bad defense strategy. I called it the flawed “sternum defense” and said that it wasn’t credible. I was correct… it just didn’t pass “the smell test.” What was strange was that they used this same weak approach before the grand jury (and it failed) and then tried it again in the open trial. If you are going to play the “technicalities game” as Bent did… you must be certain that your tactic is the truth (or at the very least, believable). His wasn’t.

    — Sam

  49. avatar
    raycot January 5, 2009 at 12:15 pm #

    Quote the Law
    4 Jan 09 at 11:51 PM

    “Raycot:

    You said, “If a man’s religious convictions call him to sacrfice humans, should it be legal for him to murder people? Of course not. One person’s right to life trumps the others freedom of religion. One is always free in their beliefs, usually free in their speech, but not always free in their actions.”

    You use an extreme example to try and disprove a religious principle that is stated in the First Amendment of the Constitution.”

    I used an extreme example to counteract your assertion that the constitution guarantees our right to behave in any manner we choose in the name of religious belief (or lack thereof). I can come up with some other examples: Do I have the right to take your property if my religious beliefs tell me that everything should be community property? Do I have the right to restrain you and lock you in a room because my religious convictions inform me that you are in danger if you go outside? Do I have the right to relieve myself on your lawn because my religious convictions tell me that I need to fertilize the earth goddess, who happens to be in your yard at that moment? The principles in our constitution have always (so far) been interpreted to have strong protections for freedom of conscience, freedom of speech, and even freedom of INACTION in the name of religious conviction (consciencious objector, refuse to perform abortions, etc), but when it comes to ACTIONS that affect others the acceptability and legality of those actions have always been up for debate by the community at large.

    I don’t happen to think that this law, that has the purpose of protecting minors from sexual exploitation, is placing an undue burden on anyone’s religious beliefs or practices. Perhaps you think that Wayne should have his own personal exemption? Well that would violate the principle that we are all equal under the law. Perhaps you would like to see a religious exemption? Good luck with that after the recent scandals in the Catholic Church, but you could try. I mean what’s up with Wayne anyway? I know he claims that he is above all that himself, but does he really want to open the flood gates for all the other perverts that we hear about in the news everyday? Doesn’t he care enough about other people to be a little flexible in this regard?

    “But the way a man and woman marry and how religious healing services are carried are covered by it.”

    Could you point out where that is in the constitution for me? You sound pretty knowledgeable and all so it must be true, but I don’t recall seeing that specifically. Thanks.

    “The Constitution is not allowed in the court systems as a safeguard for personal or religious freedoms anymore.”

    Generally, I tend to agree with you about this, but I don’t think this specific law is an undue burden to comply with considering the alternatives.

    “You say one is always free in their beliefs and “usually” free in their speech. This is not true either. If it was true then why was Mr. Bent convicted for a religious healing service where both girls stated that nothing sexual happened?”

    I’m not sure what you are getting at here. Belief does not include action.

    Although the law has the purpose of preventing sexual exploitation of minors, it does not require proof that anyone considers the actions “sexual” themselves or is sexually aroused. Read it…it doesn’t say that.

    “Why should I persuade “enough” people or get a right judge in my pocket to change the law BACK to what it originally was? You are missing that part.”

    Because if there’s not a specific right involved then you need the consent of the governed to change it back, or an unscrupulous judge to invent a new right. That’s our system.

    “See by your own admissions the laws are wrong and need correcting, but need a majority vote before change can occur.”

    Yes, I admit that I think some laws are wrong and need changing…but not this one….except to maybe tighten it up a little. I also admit that I think we have a big problem with some of our judges.

    “Would you state this the same way if the law stated that everyone who would not allow their underage daughter to have an abortion should be sent to prison for ten years and you happened to have such a daughter?”

    No, because I don’t agree with that law.

    “That is part of my point here. The laws of the land are upside down.”

    That’s debatable…really. Some people obviously think the laws are right side up.

    “The religious freedom to decide for oneself what is moral or immoral is gone by your own admission.”

    I should clarify…you can always decide for yourself what is moral or immoral but the state may or may not allow you to legally act on those beliefs. What the state has done through “Lawrence vs Texas” is remove the right of the community to have their morality reflected in the laws that they are subject to unless the law can be justified on the purely rational basis of state interest. Which might sound good on the surface, but in practice the process is still irrational and political, but with the power now concentrated in the hands of a few instead of the many.

    “So the state is to be our conscience now? not God?”

    That seems to be where we are headed in my opinion.

    “I cannot go there. And those who have a conscience before God of what is true and moral cannot either.”

    I agree.

    “This case proves that whoever is caught or told upon will be punished severely even to the full extent of the law, even if no law was broken.”

    No, it doesn’t.

  50. avatar
    raycot January 5, 2009 at 12:26 pm #

    Jan
    5 Jan 09 at 6:48 AM

    “Another important factor is that Wayne Bent said to the press right after he was found guilty (Taos News video features Wayne Bent verdict & interviews – here on Beyond 90 Seconds) that all of this was done on purpose. He was told to do what he did to offend our world, to make us mad and convict him. He even said that he wrote about it a year ago. It was his very own special “prophecy.””

    Inside the court room these were just harmless religious ceremonies to heal the minors. Wayne was only complying with the girls’ requests, of which he had no influence over or knowledge of beforehand.

    Outside the courtroom these religious ceremonies were DESIGNED to offend the world, to make Wayne the marker for the end of our society. If something is designed, then it had a designer. Does anyone think that would be the girls themselves?

    Why oh why can’t his supporters see the contradictions?

  51. avatar
    Tori January 5, 2009 at 12:35 pm #

    Sam,

    Thank you for the “smell test” term. The jury may not have heard all of the witnesses, or read the letters from the virgins which told how of the skin to skin laying naked, his touching their breasts and kissing them like a husband kisses a wife… these all suggest a sexual context. But the jury evidently heard enough to be able to tell that something didnt smell right.

    One of the methods that WB used to control the group was to define reality for them… if a statement were repeated often enough, and dwelt upon, then it must make it true according to the logic of SC. So now the chant is… he isnt our leader, he is just a brother…. it wasnt sexual, it was just the sternum… This chanting of the current truth is the reason for the abundance of words, as if it will wear out your reasoning just by listening to it long enough.

    I like Ron’s comment about just using common sense. Thanks, Ron.

  52. avatar
    ron January 5, 2009 at 12:49 pm #

    The programming that these people went through is deep. Wayne spent many years working on them, and now they all sound like him, or at least try to sound like him. They have a very strong “Group Think” going on, but maybe with Wayne gone, the fog can lift.

  53. avatar
    Tori January 5, 2009 at 1:10 pm #

    I dont think he is going to be that “gone” if he has constant contact with them through the internet or visitations… and besides, many of the group will be more than glad to pick up where he left off… they have everything invested in their way of thinking… it may take a while to wear off. They may be particularly adamant right now just to protect their “flock” from going astray and thinking for themselves.

  54. avatar
    KM January 5, 2009 at 2:00 pm #

    Tori,
    Where he is incarcerated at the moment is 300 miles from SC. And we’ve had pretty severe winter weather in NM since before Christmas. Got a foot last night in the NW.

    I looked on the NM Correctional Facilities website specifically for information to internet access. Haven’t found anything yet. The only computers seems to be for educational purposes. Mail is unlimited if the inmate pays the postage otherwise it’s limited to 2 outgoing letters a week and all letters have to fit in a regular sized envelope and be written on paper provided by the prison. They also are inspected before being sent and will be confiscated if they think something in the letter is inappropriate. Any mail coming in is also checked for contraband, including money which is put in the inmates trust account.

    Telephone calls are limited and monitored, occasionally recorded and visitation hours are set by what facility and level you are in.

    The only exception to the above are attorney calls or mail and privileged calls or mail such as a telephone interview with the media or government entities.

    If he’s moved to Clayton he might have more contact but right now it seems like it will be pretty limited. He also has to put any visitors on a list and they have to fill out a form and return it for approval (or rejection).

  55. avatar
    KM January 5, 2009 at 2:13 pm #

    From Wendy Bent’s letter to the Governor:
    “This man has never had a criminal record and by the testimony of those who know and live with him, they all agree and attest that he is a man of utmost integrity. I personally have known him for nearly twenty years and have never seen him lie, cheat or steal. I have never seen him compromise himself in anyway or use anyone for his own selfish gratifications”.

    Uh, excuse me? I’ve never met the man but just by reading what he wrote over the past 8 months and watching Nat Geo’s video and SC’s video I can attest to him having done all of the above, starting with breaking up marriages so he could sleep with the women.
    Need I go on with all the other ways he has compromised himself and used others? Not really necessary as it is well documented.

    BBL, I’m going to go do a little meditating with my leftover New Year’s ham and beans.

  56. avatar
    CryTears January 5, 2009 at 5:28 pm #

    Bottom line.
    He broke Gods laws starting years ago.
    The God of Heaven I believe has had enough of his lies, deceits and trail of broken marriages, ruined lives and people left hurting.
    Not to mention all the unfulfilled prophecies, predictions and set dates, remember, Liberty, Freedome?!…bang bang pots and pans!
    God allows us to exams the fruits of ones life.
    WayBents his fruits/legacy leaves behind nothing but ruin, unhappiness and longing for living anywhere but there!
    Hearing young girls talk of planet earth NOT being where they were meant to be…WHAT???
    How dare they detest Gods creation!
    I’d like to see them trade places with someone given a deadly diagnoses such as Multiple Sclerosis or ALS, aka Lou Gehrigs disease…Most of these people diagnosed with such do anything to live life as it is, even to the point of taking costly meds just to eek out a few more days.
    What an absolute abomination to those of us suffering such pain by what these young girls are claiming and stating they don’t belong here on earth!
    Come live a day in my shoes little smart mouthed know it all little child!
    What a waste of lives…laying around loathing the life God gave them!
    Do what the Lord taught you…go do good, help others, give to the poor. There are many people who are desperate just for a few minutes of friendship.
    There are orphanages right here in the US! Go give yourselves there…give to the needy sweet charitys bread…give to the needy and quit taking instead!
    Better re read scriptures, not let your brother, or whomever you’re calling him now…don’t allow his input into what you read or think.
    You’ll soon learn you’ve all be given a huge big fat lie! Time to wake up and smell the Postum…or Carob, or whatever hot drink one wants!

  57. avatar
    Wendy Bent January 5, 2009 at 5:30 pm #

    God has a controversy with the world. When the judgment shall sit, and the books shall be opened, He has an awful account to settle, which would now make the world fear and tremble were men not blinded and bewitched by satanic delusions and deceptions. God will call the world to account for the death of His only-begotten Son, whom to all intents and purposes the world has crucified afresh (in the person of Wayne Bent), and put to open shame in the persecution of His people (at Strong City). The world has rejected Christ in the person of His saints, … They have rejected those who have been colaborers with Christ, and for this they will have to render an account. Ellen G. White, TM pp. 39-40

  58. avatar
    ron January 5, 2009 at 6:13 pm #

    God created the whole universe, in its infinate complexity, so he could condemn everyone who uses the comon sense that God gave them to see that Wayne is a fraud who has fooled approx 60 people. I’m glad someone exlained that to me!

  59. avatar
    Quote the Law January 5, 2009 at 7:03 pm #

    Sam:

    You said in this paragraph, “You made the assertion that my “logic is severely flawed at best.” But, it’s not my logic. You see, I could actually agree with you on your premise, if you change that statement to the “logic of ‘the system’ is severely flawed….”

    The way you worded things it sounded to me like you were in agreement with the “tactics” and “game” that the state has made the court system into. So I do not have a problem there at all now that you have explained yourself.

    However since Mr. Bent chose to tell the truth of it, and chose to show a video of himself laying his hand on the chests of various ones at several different times over the years, shows that he has nothing to hide in this regard. According to Wendy Bent’s testimony on the SC site when the girls were asked where he touched them on the chest they pointed near the clavicle. As a very young girl at the time her breast tissue could not have been very large. Consequently when he touched her that high up it could not have been anywhere near her mammary glands and certainly nowhere near the areola. They ALL stated that it was not sexual. How much plainer does it need to be? Duh!

    Since Wayne chose to tell the truth, he could not compromise himself and say he was guilty of something that never happened. It is an insane cruel twist of the system to try and get an innocent person to admit to breaking the law, then be repentant for that manufactured crime so they can get a lesser sentence, than tell the truth and get a harsher sentence. This is so bizarre it boggles my mind. Mr. Bent does not play that “game”. I am sure glad that God does not play that kind of “game” or use “tactics” in his decisions on guilt or innocence.

    I still do not see any law or portion of a law that he broke. By the testimony of ALL the witnesses his hand was nowhere near a female breast in a molesting or forced way. They BOTH stated it was a religious experience. I think the judge, the DA and the Jury acted on prejudice rather than by the STRICT letter of the law on this. It is very plain and obvious for me to see, when one chooses to believe the statement of the witnesses themselves. If course if one were to take the position that the witnesses were liars and/or did not know what they were talking about, then the question can be asked, “How can there be a case at all?”

    Am I the only one who sees the injustice in this case? Is everyone else so blind and deaf that they do not believe the witnesses own testimony? Hello is any body out there with a mind to think this logically through? I am just baffled.

    There is only one answer. The judge the DA and the jury were all brain dead for those few days and heard only what they wanted to hear.

    I am done now.

  60. avatar
    Juror January 5, 2009 at 7:43 pm #

    Mr Bojanges… He was the last witness called to the atand Dr Melton I beleive was his name.

    Sam… what do you mean by my comment interesting?

  61. avatar
    Juror January 5, 2009 at 7:54 pm #

    They BOTH stated it was a religious experience. I think the judge, the DA and the Jury acted on prejudice rather than by the STRICT letter of the law on this.

    What do you mean by prejudice? Can you please explain this to me?

  62. avatar
    Sam Redman January 5, 2009 at 8:41 pm #

    Juror – I explained what I found interesting about your comment in my post above (but, perhaps not enough). To respond further, I found it interesting that you and other jurors were perceptive enough to sense that such a testimony (about Bent’s not being the leader) didn’t “ring true.” And, of course, you were correct. Wayne Bent was (is) the unquestioned leader, to the point of controlling the way people thought and how they conducted themselves and everything about what they believed (his meetings, his teachings and his writings were “gospel” to them). I guess they thought it was a better approach to “fudge” on that (why I don’t know).

    And if you would like to discuss anything at all with me (which might not be suited for a public board), you could contact me through the beyond90second.com host (I am not affiliated with him, but he has my email address and I will give him permission to give it to you).

    — Sam

  63. avatar
    M.C. January 5, 2009 at 8:41 pm #

    Wendy:
    Thanks for coming on the site. I must admit as a devout follower of Jesus Christ I am astonished at how you compare the life of Christ who, according to the Scriptures, was born a virgin, lived a sinless life, then suffered unspeakable agony and death on the cross by taking upon Himself God’s wrath for the world’s sins . . . to Wayne Bent, a self-admitted past sinner whose suffering is infintesimal (at least by comparrison). I have the same question regarding comparring Strong City’s “persecution” to the 2,000 year history of martyrs tortured to death (some even today) for their faith in Christ. I don’t mean to belittle what you or Mr. Bent are enduring, it must be very difficult, but the comparrisons are beyond ludicrous.

  64. avatar
    Sam Redman January 5, 2009 at 8:50 pm #

    Here is Wayne Bent’s prisoner information:

    Prisoner: BENT WAYNE
    DOB: 05/18/41
    Location: CNMCF MAIN
    NMCD Number: 69395

    NMCD – New Mexico Correctional department
    CNMCF – Central New Mexico Correctional Facility · Los Lunas
    NMCD Number – prisoner number

    Usually with a prisoner’s number (and the other information) you can write to them. There are usually certain restrictions regarding content and also the paper and size of envelope. Plus, there is probably an approved book list as well If I find that information, I will post it (or someone else can if they find it first). My suggestion is that if you write Wayne that you send words of encouragement and good cheer. He doesn’t need nastiness or hatred. He needs love and your blessings.

    —Sam

  65. avatar
    Sam Redman January 5, 2009 at 9:05 pm #

    Wendy,

    I would like to suggest that you and other friends of Wayne check out the forum at prisontalk.com. PrisonTalk is a huge board made up entirely of relatives and loved ones of prisoners incarcerated all over the country (they have a New Mexico section). Most of the participants there are women (with their husbands and boyfriends and sons who are in prison serving time). There you would find a lot of help on various issues relating to prisoners including those who share your concerns about unfair sentences (literally thousands of the participants there have similar outrage to that which you have expressed about the severity of sentences received by their prisoner loved ones). It is hard to find a prisoner satisfied with his sentence (and many will tell you that they have also been falsely convicted). Joining others in discussions of their pursuits to get sentences lessened might be very educational for you.

    But, that board is more than about commiserating in your frustrations. They can give lots of help in the various techniques to enhance early parole and understanding other aspects of prison life. Check the forum out. I have used it several times, and most recently in regard to a prisoner situation in which I have been assisting (a case where a young man got 21 years for a simple drug possession, while a known major dealer received a probated sentence… frustrating isn’t it?). That case has a very good chance for appeal, but I will tell you they have retained (hired) the very best appeal firm in the state where he was convicted. You should do that as well.

    —Sam

  66. avatar
    Stephanie January 6, 2009 at 4:57 am #

    Was just speaking a friend who also happens to work as a deputy, and he was telling me how they shift prisoners around to different states sometimes to ease crowding, or if it is believed the prisoner is going to create trouble in or on the outside. I know we get prisoners from other states at our nearby prison all of the time.

    If WB is moved completely out of NM, this could be the best thing for these people to learn to move on without him.

  67. avatar
    raycot January 6, 2009 at 7:18 am #

    “… but I will tell you they have retained (hired) the very best appeal firm in the state where he was convicted. You should do that as well.”

    Any suggestions on how they might do that if they don’t have the funds?

  68. avatar
    ron January 6, 2009 at 7:30 am #

    Is there a prophecy about an appeal? :”And the Lord said thou shalt hire the best appeal lawyers money can buy, and fight to undo my previous prophecy”

  69. avatar
    Sam Redman January 6, 2009 at 8:36 am #

    To Raycot –

    Perhaps you are not aware that they own “free and clear” prime ranch land, worth perhaps a million dollars or more. This isn’t just raw land, but it has been developed with access roads and “improvements” (buildings with utilities, including plumbing). I am sure that the best law firm in New Mexico would hasten to their aid and accept their deed as collateral. The people on the land could take jobs in nearby towns to repay the loan. Since they are self-sufficient now from other income… the income of 40 or so working people (at just minimum wages, 8 to 10 thousand dollars per week) could all go toward retiring that obligation. A huge sum would be amassed rather quickly.

    But, they don’t even need to mortgage their property. They have over 350 acres. With only 50 residents, they could keep fifty acres and sell off 300 (probably worth $10,000 an acre).

    In that example situation which I was describing earlier (about the young man incarcerated on the drug charge), his parents are junior college professors without large incomes. They mortgaged their home to the maximum amount to pay for the appeal (he hadn’t told them he was even on trial in the original court proceedings). Many people are willing to make huge sacrifices for their loved ones.

    —Sam

  70. avatar
    Quote the Law January 6, 2009 at 8:44 am #

    Juror:

    Thank you for responding to my statement about prejudice. The last two paragraphs sum up what I am about to share here.

    In order for a jury to form a clear understanding of a crime they must remove from their minds all opinions and preconceived ideas formed by their own lives on what is morally right or wrong. They must remove from their minds anything that has no bearing on the case in regards to what is lawful or not. In Mr. Bent’s case if one were to go by the exact wording of the law and by the exact testimony of the two girls no criminal sexual contact happened.

    A lot of “evidence” allowed in the courtroom during questioning was carefully designed to paint a picture of guilt when if one were to examine it in the light of society as a whole there would be no guilt. Several examples come to mind.

    Several religions have a spiritual leader who makes the final decision on matters of the Church. Is that a crime? No. Several religions have dress codes for the members. Is that a crime? No. Several religions have guidelines and rules for behavior on Church owned property regarding animals, conduct etc. Is that a crime? No. So all these types of questions regarding Mr. Bent’s conduct and the members there should have been inadmissible since it has absolutely no bearing on the case and are questions regarding things that are not criminal or against the law.

    Some state that Mr. Bent has made claims to being Messiah and The Son of God. Whether or not those statements are true have no bearing either because one should be allowed freedom of speech or can make any claim. Is it a crime to state publicly or privately these kinds of things? No

    The incident itself called into question was plainly called a religious experience by the two girls. If they called it a religious experience how can the DA, the judge or the jury find it different UNLESS they believe the girls lied. If the girls lied then they perjured themselves on the stand and all their statements should be thrown out. If they did not lie then anything else stated would be purely supposition or conjecture on anyone’s part since no one else was there. When the girls were asked where they were touched neither one said that he touched them on the mammary gland area or near the areola. So according to the exact wording of the law he did not touch the breast, the loins or anus as defined by the law. In other words one must go by what the law itself states without adding their own perceptions of what it says or what the girls said.

    Anything else is prejudice. Prejudice can be created in the minds of the people by the wording and phrasing of questions. Prejudice can be there by virtue of misconceptions about the motives of the ones involved. One would have to take the position that Mr. Bent was leering at them as they lay there or that he did these things in order to make further advances. However no one knows these things for sure. It is pure conjecture to assume these things since no one was witness to his face or actions EXCEPT the girls. And they BOTH stated that it was a religious experience. His guilt was based on something that the witnesses refuted.

    So did you assume that they lied? Or did you assume that they did not understand what was happening? Or did you assume that he was doing things that “might” have occurred that they did not know about? At any rate all those types of thoughts again or suppositions and unproven since no one was there but the two girls. And again they BOTH said it was a religious experience. Both came away from it unmolested in their minds. And in this case one girl plainly knows from personal experience later in life what a sexual experience is. The oldest one knows what a sexual experience is and would be able to describe it plainly. She should be the one most knowledgeable about that. The younger one was the one where the criminal sexual contact was not applied. Why not her too? Both had the same testimony and both had the same experience.

    That is why I say it was prejudice. What I mean is the evidence was damaged by preconceived ideas and opinions and by ideas created in the jury’s mind regarding things that are lawful made to look unlawful. This created guilt where none existed in opposition to the strict wording of the law and from the testimony given by the witnesses themselves.

    He should have been set free on the basis of their testimony about what happened and on the basis of the exact wording of the law.

  71. avatar
    raycot January 6, 2009 at 8:46 am #

    “Perhaps you are not aware that they own “free and clear” prime ranch land, worth perhaps a million dollars or more. This isn’t just raw land, but it has been developed with access roads and “improvements” (buildings with utilities, including plumbing). I am sure that the best law firm in New Mexico would hasten to their aid and accept their deed as collateral. The people on the land could take jobs in nearby towns to repay the loan. Since they are self-sufficient now from other income… the income of 40 or so working people (at just minimum wages, 8 to 10 thousand dollars per week) could all go toward retiring that obligation. A huge sum would be amassed rather quickly.

    But, they don’t even need to mortgage their property. They have over 350 acres. With only 50 residents, they could keep fifty acres and sell off 300 (probably worth $10,000 an acre).”

    Well, when you put it that way, I guess it shouldn’t be a problem then. Since Wayne utilized a public defender, I assumed that they didn’t have any resources. My mistake.

  72. avatar
    raycot January 6, 2009 at 8:51 am #

    “Many people are willing to make huge sacrifices for their loved ones.”

    But they shouldn’t have to make huge sacrifices to obtain justice under our system, should they?

    (I’m talking in general, not about Wayne specifically)

  73. avatar
    raycot January 6, 2009 at 9:14 am #

    Quote the Law
    6 Jan 09 at 8:44 AM

    “In order for a jury to form a clear understanding of a crime they must remove from their minds all opinions and preconceived ideas formed by their own lives on what is morally right or wrong. They must remove from their minds anything that has no bearing on the case in regards to what is lawful or not. In Mr. Bent’s case if one were to go by the exact wording of the law and by the exact testimony of the two girls no criminal sexual contact happened.”

    Are you aware of the concept of “jury nullification”.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification

    [quote]
    Jury nullification is an act of a jury (its verdict) intended to make an official rule, especially a statute, void in the context of a particular case. In other words, “the process whereby a jury in a criminal case effectively nullifies a law by acquitting a defendant regardless of the weight of evidence against him or her.”[1]
    [/quote]

    [quote]
    The jury system was established because it was felt that a panel of citizens, drawn at random from the community, and serving for too short a time to be corrupted, would be more likely to render a just verdict, through judging both the evidence and the law, than officials who may be unduly influenced to follow established legal practice, especially when that practice has drifted from its constitutional origins. Jury nullification is a reminder that the right to trial by one’s peers affords the public an opportunity to take a dissenting view about the justness of a statute or official practices.
    [/quote]

    [quote]
    I consider trial by jury as the only anchor yet imagined by man by which a government can be held to the principles of its constitution.
    —Thomas Jefferson, 1789 letter to Thomas Paine [/quote]

    [quote]
    The jury has the right to judge both the law as well as the fact in controversy.~John Jay, first Chief Justice of the United States [/quote]

    if the jury is to remove from their minds all opinions and preconceived ideas formed by their own lives on what is (morally) right or wrong then you have indeed removed the last barrier to government becoming god.

    “The incident itself called into question was plainly called a religious experience by the two girls.”

    Minors cannot legally consent to participate in certain activities, whether you define them as “religious experiences” or not.

  74. avatar
    KM January 6, 2009 at 10:04 am #

    Quote the Law, You sound very sure of yourself about all the testimony at the trial. Were you in the courtroom the entire hearing? Or perhaps you have a transcript of the hearing?

    We heard that it was very difficult to hear in that particular courtroom so I’m very curious to know how you know everything that was said. Please share.

    And although I repeat myself, the girls statements in the safe room on April 23, 2008 were as follows:

    Synopsis of interview with A. S.:

    “A.S. said she lay naked with Wayne Bent, AKA Michael Travesser. A.S. said Mr. Bent
    kissed her lips like a husband and wife do. Mr. Bent also touched and kissed her breasts.
    A.S. said this incident occurred on or about August 2, 2006 at the Strong City Compound
    in Union County, State of New Mexico”.

    Synopsis of interview with L.S.:

    “L.S. said she lay naked with Wayne Bent and they had lain skin to skin. L.S. said Mr.
    Bent had kissed her lips and they lay chest to chest. L.S. said this incident occurred on or
    about July 31, 2006 at the Strong City Compound in Union County, State of New
    Mexico”.

    Just because they “maybe” didn’t say the same exact thing at the trial (because they were scared, nervous, etc.) doesn’t negate the evidence that the State Police obtained in the safe room. Unless the judge threw that evidence out, I’m sure it was a part of the trial.

    And as Raycot pointed out “Minors cannot legally consent to participate in certain activities, whether you define them as “religious experiences” or not”.

  75. avatar
    Casidi January 6, 2009 at 10:43 am #

    Quote the Law:
    “Several religions have a spiritual leader who makes the final decision on matters of the Church. Is that a crime? No. Several religions have dress codes for the members. Is that a crime? No. Several religions have guidelines and rules for behavior on Church owned property regarding animals, conduct etc. Is that a crime? No. So all these types of questions regarding Mr. Bent’s conduct and the members there should have been inadmissible since it has absolutely no bearing on the case and are questions regarding things that are not criminal or against the law.

    Some state that Mr. Bent has made claims to being Messiah and The Son of God. Whether or not those statements are true have no bearing either because one should be allowed freedom of speech or can make any claim. Is it a crime to state publicly or privately these kinds of things? No”

    Actually his claiming to be a leader or having a position of a leader does indeed have bearing on the case.

    The law states that “the perpetrator is in a position of authority over the child”. If Wayne was just another person at Strong City it could be argued that he wasn’t in a position of authority. It is important for the prosecution to ask if he claims, or others at Strong City also see him as, a leader. No, it’s not illegal for him to say he is or for the members to believe he is their leader, but that does indeed put him in a place of authority which directly relates to the crime and therefore is completely admissible and relevant.

  76. avatar
    Sam Redman January 6, 2009 at 12:34 pm #

    To “Quote the Law” –

    While I am of the opinion that a better defense might have freed Bent, I think that the way the case was presented, the jury made the correct decision. If the defense had rested after the cross examination of the two “victims,” then possibly a reasonable doubt would have been present. Most people don’t realize (or forget) that the defense is not required to prove anything (the accused is innocent until proven guilty). The entire “burden of proof” rests with the prosecution and they have to establish guilt, “beyond” even the tiniest bit of a “reasonable doubt.” The jury must start with a “presumption of innocence.” Those cross examinations introduced enough information to have raised several sticking questions. The defense could (and should) have rested their case after the prosecution concluded their presentation. That would have been their very best tactic.

    But, the defense didn’t do that… they instead launched a vigorous defense and, most significantly, the defense really made the fatal mistake of putting the accused (remember, he is presumed innocent and doesn’t have to testify) on the stand (and he admitted what the prosecution was saying he did). You must realize that the testimony of the accused, concerning any admission, would take precedence over the statements of any “alleged” victim, because often victims in sexual manipulation cases have been groomed by their abusers (to the point where the victims often are “in love” with the perpetrator, as you saw in one of the victims here).

    Now, after Bent admitted to having placed his hand on the naked girls’ chests, he really sealed his fate. The facet of this case, which many persons, who are commenting on these proceedings, don’t seem to understand is that it was immaterial whether his intent was sexual or not or whether there was any attempt for sexual gratification. And, it did not matter if it was being done as purely a “religious healing act” or any other lofty purpose. The law doesn’t distinguish on the basis of purpose or intent. The law merely prohibits an adult (in a position of authority using that authority) from any “intentional” touching of any intimate (meaning private, as in normally clothed) area of a child (and the breast is defined that way). The moment an adult “intentionally” touches the intimate area of a child, he has violated the law (and it becomes. “Criminal sexual contact of a minor”). The only exception would be a licensed medical doctor in the course of a medical examination or treatment. Other health practitioners (such as massage therapists) don’t even have that right. Bent’s position, that he was doing a totally naked healing exercise in his bedroom on his bed (even with the excuse that he was in his jockey shorts) really doesn’t reasonably rise to the level of an appropriate therapeutic (certainly not state-licensed) environment. Religious freedom does not allow the violation of prohibitions provided by that law.

    The prosecutor did an excellent summary in delineating and defining the law and in separating that what was needed for conviction was “distinct” from any need for proof of sexual intent for sexual gratification. Bent admitted that he placed his hand on the naked child’s sternum. The jury decision was reduced to its most simple terms… “Was it reasonable that his wide hand could have been placed there without touching the breast? ” Well the truth is, “No, it couldn’t.” They had no other choice than to vote for a guilty verdict.

    Jurors considering that the other witness was not being truthful (they were correct in their assumption) about Bent not being the leader goes directly to the consideration of whether Bent was “a position of authority over the child” and used that authority to “coerce the child to submit.” If they thought that witness was lying about that… then it set the stage, removing any doubt about whether Bent was in that position of authority. Putting a non-credible “Gabriel” on the stand to swear to what (the facts from outside the courtroom later show) was not truthful testimony, was a cardinal defense error, because his apparent deceptiveness confirmed to jurors particulars about that requirement for a second degree felony. The defense should have kept this all very, very simple, instead of making the mistake of trying to prove innocence.

    Then for the prosecution to remove all traces of doubt (after all of that), only Bent’s testimony was needed and in light of his on-the-stand admission, and they wasted no time in making sure the distinction, defining the crime, was very, very narrow.

    — Sam

  77. avatar
    EMC January 6, 2009 at 3:55 pm #

    One element which has struck me most clearly in these past few weeks is how frantically members of Strong City have been trying to re-write history, apparently forgetting just how much of their history is, in fact, available electronically for the world to see.

    I remember reading (through archival records) one of Wayne’s early explanations about the Two Witnesses in which he wrote that it was two, because one was too ordinary, and any more than two would seem more like a harem. It seems Wayne forgot that eventually.

    In the statement Wayne intended to give at his sentencing hearing, he wrote:

    However, this representation had always been only mental imagery, rather than something that was carried out physically, until the year 2006 when [A.S.] and her sister each asked, individually, to be physically naked on my bed with me present. (Wayne used the young woman’s name – that has been edited.)

    The implication is that these events happened in isolation, that the sisters felt this need to lie naked as some special calling from God, independent of all other events.

    What is not mentioned, and what I think the prosecution had the opportunity to use to establish a pattern of conduct (but did not introduce) – is that, in fact, at least three other young women (not minors) had lain naked with Wayne in the month prior to the events described at the trial.

    Healed’s Testimony to Strong City of her Role as One of the Seven

    August 7th when Michael told us no more naked on the bed with Him and skin to skin and that we had gone as far as we could, I at first felt terror. But then Father gave me His sweet peace and I was just at rest. He also told us that we could forget about a physical consummation with Him.

    Two elements are critical in the statement above. One – if a man and a woman are chest to chest, skin to skin, then contact occurs between intimate parts. Much has been made of the argument about where Wayne’s hands or fingers were. The reality is, “touching” can occur with other body parts – and Healed’s own writings describe that happening.

    Two – this paragraph clearly illustrates the dance of manipulation, where Wayne withdrew favor until the young women begged, and asked for yet more intimacy. This behavior is, in fact, a classic behavior of predators. If one chooses to read earlier writings of Strong City, the same behavior occurred prior to other “consummations.”

    When Michael sent the email and said He wanted everyone to come and tell Him what the consummation in judgment would look like for us now, I felt at rest. I knew Father would tell me what it was. I was almost sure that it was a physical consummation with the Seven, but I wanted to be clear.

    This was no simple religious rite. Wayne manipulated his followers into believing that The Consummation was a critical element in the fulfillment of prophecy. To be one of the messengers of God – what a heady experience for a naive young woman.

    In case any have forgotten, the need (to fulfill prophecy) was a literal, physical consummation with the Seven. Things didn’t quite work out as planned, so the Strong City family (really, Wendy? if Strong City is a family – then the word is INCEST) re-wrote the plan once more – and we can tot up Wayne’s conquests as: the Two Witnesses, his daughter-in-law, three virgins, and one final member who, as a token of the special role she played in fulfilling the prophecy, took (at least for a while) the name Jubilee.

    If the intent of the state was simply to persecute Wayne, why did the state not charge him for his acts with Willow? If sensationalism and trial by media were the goal, then surely those charges would have been appropriate grist for the mill.

    Now, as to the four most recent authors on Strong City’s website – are they objective observers of the events of that summer and fall? Three were members (recipients?) of the Consummation, and the fourth is the mother of one of the Seven.

    “Quote the Law” – yes, it was a religious ceremony, the name of which was “The Consummation.” I find it difficult to understand how a rational spectator could interpret that as non-sexual and legal. It is possible for a religious ceremony to be illegal. Also, the girls were TOLD the Consummation was not sexual, and they have no other frame of reference to know the truth.

    Wayne’s sentence is appropriate and just.

  78. avatar
    KM January 6, 2009 at 4:26 pm #

    To Wendy Bent, I have been married to the same man for 30 years and we have 5 beautiful children to share God’s love with.

    When we lay in bed holding each other at the end of the day, sharing our joys and our concerns, our bodies touch. Whether clothed or naked our chests touch, our hips touch and various private parts are inevitably touched even if in a nonsexual way. Our bodies fit together as God created them to do.

    I know you have been intimate with a man so you know exactly what I’m talking about. When he laid his head on the young girl’s stomach the way the attorney described he was touching her completely naked body. I don’t care if it was her sternum, breast, belly button or hip. It’s against the law and it’s a sin.

    You can condemn the world for all of the supposed transgressions against your “brother” and the rest of you. But if I end up in Hell for speaking out for young children who have been groomed to believe that their only path to heaven is to lay naked with this man, so be it. I’ll meet you there and we can continue this discussion.

  79. avatar
    ron January 6, 2009 at 4:37 pm #

    Has Wayne proclaimed his divinity to the staff and the rest of the prison population?
    Do they have a “Holier-than-Thou” cell?

  80. avatar
    Quote the Law January 6, 2009 at 8:05 pm #

    Raycot:

    Yes, I have known about jury nullification for many years. However as a juror I would not want to override this particular law. I do really believe that criminal sexual contact with a minor is wrong. The gray areas come in regards to when is a child a minor and when are they an adult. Many different cultures have differing ideas on this. In our culture if a boy/girl is 17 years 364 days old he/she is a minor and the next day he/she is an adult. This is just ridiculous. A date on the calender does not constitute maturity. Some “minors” are much more adult than some “adults” who are much older. They can reason and think better than some “adults”.

    Also our society has differing rules on when a person is a minor and when they are adults. At the movie theaters or smorgasboards a person is an adult at 12. A boy is an adult at 18 and can kill, but cannot buy alcohol.

  81. avatar
    Sam Redman January 6, 2009 at 9:07 pm #

    To Ron –

    My theory (just a guess really) is that Wayne is no longer claiming to be God. Actually this deduction just comes from what they have communicated on their website about Bent in consideration with the circumstances around his three day prison fast. He announced in the court room after the sentencing that he wouldn’t live longer than a few days in prison, then upon arrival he went into a “religious fast. But, exactly three days later, he ended the fast and then on their website, Bent isn’t called Michael anymore and he has a new status; those who used to be his “wives” and are now just his “friends” and instead of “husband,” he is their “brother.” If this is true, then he probably prepared them fully during the two weeks prior to sentencing how to handle it in public communications. Most likely, he said that “Father” revealed that this would happen… and if my guess is correct, then they can say that another “prophesy” came true. Probably the line was that Michael the Archangel, died when Wayne entered the prison and after three days in the “tomb of the prison,” arose from the dead (at noon Friday) out of the Wayne Bent body and ascended back to heaven (because God was simply not going to allow the “Beast” to lock “Him” up). That guy in prison would now be just good old Wayne Bent again (brother and friend). Therefore, since he wouldn’t be God anymore, Bent could now serve his time better without fellow prisoners making fun of him and without him getting mental health therapy… he would no longer be considered a lunatic; now just one of the guys. Maybe Bent could tell his new prison mates (who are often harsh on sex offenders) that it was “that other guy.” But, like I said… it’s just a guess.

    — Sam

  82. avatar
    AG January 6, 2009 at 11:46 pm #

    Quote the Law- are you Milton?

  83. avatar
    KM January 7, 2009 at 1:17 am #

    I found the following motion on the NMcourts.gov website entered on Dec. 30:
    12/30/2008: MTN: MOTION
    STATE’S MOTION FOR DEFENDANT’S DETERMINATION OF
    INDIGENCE
    AND IF DETERMINED NOT TO BE INDIGENT TO REIMBURSE
    THE STATE.

    Also:
    12/30/2008 CLS: JUDGMT/JURY 12 PERSON
    COUNT 1 AQUITTED BY JURY
    COUNT 2 GUILTY
    COUNT 3 GUILTY
    COUNT 4 GUILTY

    COUNT 2 – PRISON 15 YRS FOLLOWED BY 2 YRS PAROLE
    COUNT 3 – PRISON 18 MONTHS FOLLOWED BY 1 YR
    PAROLE
    COUNT 4 – PRISON 18 MONTHS FOLLOWED BY 1 YR
    PAROLE ALL

    ORDERED TO REGISTER AS A SEX OFFENDER FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE .

  84. avatar
    Stephanie January 7, 2009 at 2:14 am #

    I thought we in society were the “beast”. Why do the folks in Strong City suddenly wish to converse with all of us?

    I find it extremely interesting that they have gone on these word fasts, then suddenly they want the public opinion?

  85. avatar
    Stephanie January 7, 2009 at 2:19 am #

    Sam, if you what theorize is true, then it would seem to me they deny Wayne Bent as their Messiah as Peter did Jesus, when Jesus got arrested.

  86. avatar
    Stephanie January 7, 2009 at 2:23 am #

    To Wendy Bent

    When will some of the older women who encouraged the minor children to lay naked with Wayne Bent stand up and take responsibility for their part in this crime your leader is now serving time for?

  87. avatar
    ron January 7, 2009 at 6:10 am #

    Flip Wilson used to say “The devil made me do it!”. Now Wayne says “Michael made me do it!”, it’s just not as funny when Wayne says it.

  88. avatar
    raycot January 7, 2009 at 8:14 am #

    Quote the Law

    6 Jan 09 at 8:05 PM

    “…The gray areas come in regards to when is a child a minor and when are they an adult. Many different cultures have differing ideas on this. In our culture if a boy/girl is 17 years 364 days old he/she is a minor and the next day he/she is an adult. This is just ridiculous. A date on the calender does not constitute maturity.”

    I, myself, was sure that I knew everything there was to know at 14. I grew up in a country where one was essentially a legal adult at 16. I had a full time job for almost a year and then moved back to the US…then just like that, I was legally a minor again and couldn’t make the decisions for myself that I had already been making for a year. So yes, it can seem arbitrary and people do mature at different rates. But a law can’t be too gray if you expect people to be able to comply with it and for it to be effective so you decide as a society what seems like a reasonable age, and you go with it. Now maybe there is room to adjust that age up or down, or maybe not, but legally it is what it is.

  89. avatar
    Quote the Law January 7, 2009 at 8:33 am #

    I have read ALL the posts on here very carefully and in EVERY single one of them there is supposition, conjecture and often outright prejudice. I still say quote the law that was broken. The reason I say this is because according to the STRICT EXACT wording of the law nothing happened by the testimony of BOTH the witnesses. PERIOD!

    So why was he sentenced to 10 years when there is no law covering this incident?

    Sure the girls were naked. He was fully clothed, He was NOT in his jockey shorts as someone slyly inserted. He touched their chest above the mammary gland area. That area is OFTEN unclothed in woman of all ages.

    Answer this one question honestly. IF they had had a bikini on and touched the EXACT same spot in the EXACT same manner as the girls indicated, would he have broken the law? NO! But because they were naked THEN all kinds of conjectures go on about the incident. Since the girls were naked THEN suddenly conjecture is brought into play. Quote the law that was broken now.

    It is conjecture, supposition and prejudice that sentenced Wayne Bent to jail. Why not admit it?

  90. avatar
    Quote the Law January 7, 2009 at 8:47 am #

    Raycot:

    The reason I brought out the discrepancies in the definition of a minor is to show that the state itself does not clearly define it. There are a LOT of if’s, variances and clarifications to it.

    A girl at 13 can decide to get an abortion without her parents knowledge or consent in some states, but she is a “minor”? Yet in that same state if she decided that she wanted a man to touch her on some intimate area and the man was not a licensed physician he would be in hot water.

    A boy can go in the military and be trained to kill, but cannot buy liquor? What nonsense is this? At one time they couldn’t even vote on the things that they were asked to participate in. I these areas and many more it just shows that there is a huge gross injustice in the whole system.

    Some self appointed person behind a desk decides what is moral, just or lawful and not the conscience of the person or the parents.

  91. avatar
    ron January 7, 2009 at 8:47 am #

    I thought all that you guys wanted was the destruction of the earth, and to follow God’s will. Apparentaly God wants Wayne in Jail, and until the world ends, try to do something positive with your life, help someone in need.
    When Wayne took someones wife, he told them that if they there angry or upset about it, to go tell God. Maybe Strong City should be protesting heaven.
    Also I would think that the use of the internet and media has brought your little world down, so why do you keep posting?

  92. avatar
    KM January 7, 2009 at 9:22 am #

    Quote the Law, YOU didn’t answer my post!

    Were you present for the entire trial, do you have the transcript? How do YOU know everything that was said, without a doubt?

    And why do you keep disregarding the girl’s first statements at the safe room last April? Those statements show he broke the law that you keep saying he didn’t. Show me in a transcript or motion, where those statements were thrown out as evidence.

    Regardless of what he or anyone else said at the trial those statements, taken from the girls before anyone could talk to them or coach them what to say, clearly say to the jury, “He broke the law of Criminal Sexual Contact of a Minor, 2nd degree”.

  93. avatar
    raycot January 7, 2009 at 10:09 am #

    Quote the Law
    7 Jan 09 at 8:47 AM

    “A girl at 13 can decide to get an abortion without her parents knowledge or consent in some states, but she is a “minor”?”

    Do you think this is right? Is this how it should be? Do you realize that many, if not a majority, of these pregnancies are a result of older men taking advantage of minors?

    Just because you can point out some things that might seem to be unjust or unfair, it doesn’t mean that everyhting is unjust or unfair. You aksed us to look at this specific case and quote the law that applies. We have done that. Yes, many of us think that Wayne is guilty. This is because of the information and evidence that we have examined while following these proceedings and before. Much of the information are postings from Strong City residents themselves, including Wayne. Their own words, not media interpretations.

    We don’t know how much of this information that the jury got to see. We have told you that we have to wait for the transcripts before we can attempt an answer about that. Even then it will be an imperfect view, because we don’t get to see body language, or see where a person might be pointing. It was the jury’s job to decide the facts in dispute, and they did.

    Will you answer KM’s question? Nevermind about the trial. If those were true statements made by the girls in the safe room. Do you think that Wayne was guilty of violating the law (Criminal sexual contact of a minor)?

  94. avatar
    Juror January 7, 2009 at 10:49 am #

    Sure the girls were naked. He was fully clothed, He was NOT in his jockey shorts as someone slyly inserted. He touched their chest above the mammary gland area. That area is OFTEN unclothed in woman of all ages.

    Quote the Law…. where were you when LS was testifing? She said he was in shorts as I recall I think that it was even mentioned back to her that he was in jockey shorts and she agreed. Then why did the man witness say he went to WB house for healing and WB healed him in the living room floor and both fully dressed?

    A grown man acting in this manner is just plan wrong, How would you feel if your 13-15 year old daughter layed naked and was being kissed with a 65 yr old man?
    This is not about religion or healing…its the law!!!

  95. avatar
    Casidi January 7, 2009 at 12:08 pm #

    Quote the Law:
    “A girl at 13 can decide to get an abortion without her parents knowledge or consent in some states, but she is a “minor”? Yet in that same state if she decided that she wanted a man to touch her on some intimate area and the man was not a licensed physician he would be in hot water.

    A boy can go in the military and be trained to kill, but cannot buy liquor? What nonsense is this? At one time they couldn’t even vote on the things that they were asked to participate in. I these areas and many more it just shows that there is a huge gross injustice in the whole system.”

    Almost everyone at SC, and especially Wayne, condemn this country and continually gnash their teeth against how horrible/unfair/unjust/corrupt this country’s laws/government is. Guess what? If you don’t like the laws/government YOU CAN TRY TO CHANGE THEM!! Yep that’s right! You can DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! Write a petition, go out and pound on doors, get people to support you. Many a law has been changed and a government employee fired by people who worked to change things.

    Aside from that, you choose to live in America and in a particular state. If you don’t like the laws of that state go to one where they have laws like you want. Some states allow girls to marry at young ages. Some states will emancipate a young person if they show maturity and a reason to leave their family. Oh, and guess what else!?! If you don’t like the laws of any state or the laws of this country… there’s other countries! I know! Amazing huh?

    This planet is pretty big and there’s lots of other cultures and governments. If this one isn’t pleasing to you then go to one that fits you better.

    I see the folks at SC doing nothing of the sort, but rather wailing over and over again how they are victims of this horrible place. Well, I have no sympathy for you as you are completely able to change your situation.

  96. avatar
    ron January 7, 2009 at 1:31 pm #

    I see that Esther is fasting to death over something Wayne wont even fast for. I’ve never known of the state to give in to ultimatums. Wayne could appeal his case, and nobody has to die, but that would make too much sense.

  97. avatar
    raycot January 7, 2009 at 1:45 pm #

    Her letter was originally dated 12/31/08. Maybe her fast ended already with Wayne’s. She did say she would stop if God told her to.

  98. avatar
    Johnny D. Miller January 7, 2009 at 3:09 pm #

    I was at the trial, and I attended all the precedings. Dispite the bad sound conditions in the court room, I did hear everything that was said. And frankly, I do not recall ever hearing anything even mentioned about the safe room interviews with L.S. or A.S. while the jury was seated in the court room. Perhaps behind the judges closed doors with Wayne and all council present, it was decided and agreed that the Safe Room interviews were not nessessary or warrented. So I would speculate that the jury knew nothing about the safe room interviews, unless the jury heard and saw them while in the jury room, because of the possible graphic nature of the interviews. One would have to ask any member of the jury to know about that. I just don’t know about that possibility. So with that being said, Wayne Bent was convicted by what was shared in the court room only, and it was enough to do the job. I could imagine that had the jury known about the safe room interviews, they would have convicted Wayne on all four counts.

  99. avatar
    EMC January 7, 2009 at 4:26 pm #

    Quote the Law wrote: I have read ALL the posts on here very carefully and in EVERY single one of them there is supposition, conjecture and often outright prejudice. I still say quote the law that was broken. The reason I say this is because according to the STRICT EXACT wording of the law nothing happened by the testimony of BOTH the witnesses. PERIOD!

    So why was he sentenced to 10 years when there is no law covering this incident?

    Quote the Law – on the off chance that you sincerely don’t know the law or see how it applies, I’ll repeat this:

    NMSA 1978 §30-9-13(A)(B)(2)(a)

    30-9-13. Criminal sexual contact of a minor.

    A. Criminal sexual contact of a minor is the unlawful and intentional touching of or applying force to the intimate parts of a minor or the unlawful and intentional causing of a minor to touch one’s intimate parts. For the purposes of this section, “intimate parts” means the primary genital area, groin, buttocks, anus or breast

    B. Criminal sexual contact of a minor in the second degree consists of all criminal sexual contact of the unclothed intimate parts of a minor perpetrated:
    (1) on a child under thirteen years of age; or
    (2) on a child thirteen to eighteen years of age when:
    (a) the perpetrator is in a position of authority over the child and uses that authority to coerce the child to submit;

    Now, as to the specific elements:

    1. You’ll note that the state defines a minor very specifically: 13 to 18 years of age when: That element is met.

    2. Wayne intentionally touched the chest of both girls. That was attested to in their safe house interviews quoted previously. In addition, the writings of Healed (to which I previously provided a link) make this very clear. None of those statements are supposition or conjecture, they are founded on the words of those directly involved. Given that these “testimonies” were written to share the

    Please don’t get caught up in where Wayne’s hand was placed – just tell me how anyone can be “skin to skin” “chest to chest” with someone and NOT have contact with the unclothed intimate parts of a minor. (By the by, it is the minor’s state of undress, not the perpetrator’s, that matters.)

    Further, Mr. Miller was in the courtroom and he, as an eyewitness, is stating that the elements were demonstrated. In addition, Juror, who was obviously present for the trial, states that the elements necessary were met.

    3. A position of authority/coercion. If you will read the arrest warrant and supporting affidavit, you will learn that the process of selecting the virgins was open and known to the community. Their roles in fulfilling the prophecy, while apparently evolving over months, also were clearly sexual in nature. In fact, members of the group left in protest over these events.

    Jurors are not obligated to just take the word of a witness. They have to measure the credibility of said witnesses. In this particular case, the testimony of the younger victim changed multiple times. She attempted to recant and modified her statements multiple times during the discovery process. Only the jurors know what elements of her comments were credible and which were not. To argue, however, that because a young, impressionable, vulnerable woman says something did not happen (in opposition to her own previous writing and statements) means something did not happen, is specious at best. It is very common for victims still in thrall to an abuser to protect them. I suspect (and THIS IS CONJECTURE) that her tearful statement that she loved Wayne was a pretty clear indicator that her testimony was influenced by her infatuation with him.

    I wonder – have you taken the time to read the documents available electronically? Many of us are so certain about the events because we’ve read the writings available from members of Strong City. When I list the seven, or describe the manipulation, it’s neither supposition nor conjecture – it’s based upon the writing of those actually, literally, involved. If necessary, most of us can provide links that support our statements.

    It seems to me as if you simply WANT this man to not be guilty, but you are denying the facts of the case.

    It was a religious happening. It was called the Consummation. Its purpose was consummation with seven virgins. Two of the virgins were underage. Although they did not participate through consummation, they were groomed for that event, and Mr. Bent crossed the line according to the laws of the state. Religious beliefs are protected by the Constitution. Actions that are illegal are NOT. Hence, the man was tried and convicted for his illegal actions.

    Fin.

  100. avatar
    Juror January 7, 2009 at 5:03 pm #

    Johnny
    To answer your questions regaurding the jury knowing anything about the safe room interview….NO we did not know anything about that. It was mentioned, but nothing was ever said about the interviews. I myself would have liked to hear what went on in the safe room. I hope that you have moved on with your life without your wife or maybe she has thought about all whats going on and has had a change in heart.

    Casidi…. that was very well said. Id like to know where they get there money for living? think the government helps them? maybe SS checks?

  101. avatar
    Johnny D. Miller January 7, 2009 at 5:52 pm #

    I also noticed that over half of the scheduled witnesses who were before-hand approved to testify were not able to do so afterall. There was a time limit alloted for this trial, and had everyone testified, we probably would have went well beyond the time allowance. Both sides had witnesses excused, witnesses which would have added very valuable evidence to consider, yet the jury never heard any of it. The safe room testiminies were not presented. Prudence Welch was not allowed to testify as she would have shown the pattern Wayne used throughout the years to condition his followers and establish his role in a leadership position. Wayne Bent had several of his witnesses excused which would have provided valuable character testimony and cross examination from the DA. Each side had to trade off and lose valuable testimony, and the lose of the safe room interviews appeared to be part of the agreement…. regardless, despite of the setbacks and the poor presentations given by both sides, there was enough said to show the jury the facts of the case so they could reach a fair verdict. Personally with my own knowledge of the witnesses Wayne Bent had to speak on his behalf, I believe they picked two of the worse avialable. Grace Travesser (Denice Young), or Eden Travesser (Shirley Sayer, Grandmother of the two girls, would have been better witnesses…. but that wasn’t the case. The worse witness in the stand was Wayne Bent himself. He appeared nervious and or so forgetful. He did not give straight answers to over half of the questions asked him by the DA. It would have been better for him if he had plead the 5th. I suspect more happened behind closed doors which effected this case, more than which was actually said on the floor of the courtroom. I am courious of what Wayne turned down when he was offered a plea bargon from the DA…. it had to be better than what he ended up with.

  102. avatar
    raycot January 7, 2009 at 6:01 pm #

    A recent post on Strong City Website

    36. Posted by Hanifa on January 7th at 5:37 PM

    …[b]As regards your question about why sex had to go hand in hand with our spiritual journey,[/b] I tell you in all honesty and with perfect seriousness, you must go and ask Father yourself. [b]Volumes have been written about the entire process, and in great detail,[/b] and so, after you pray and ask Father to open your eyes, [b]you can read all about it on one of the mirror sites [/b]that are online.

    The bottom line is that this is what Father asked of us, what He did with us [b]and what we chose to do in obedience to His personal Word[/b] instead of running from what we, in our flesh, could see as a very real stumbling block for those looking on….especially those who call themselves christian.

    There always has been an offensive symbol to stumble over for those who would follow God. The uplifted brazen serpent, preparing to kill one’s only son, a prophet who was instructed to marry a whore, the cross itself, all of these and more have been arranged by God as offenses to fulfill His purposes.

    [b]If any man will say that he follows God and yet, will not go into areas outside of the perceived “safety zone” when asked to do so by God, that soul deceives itself. [/b]God reveals the true nature of the heart by way of His “stumbling blocks”. [b]Obedience to the Word of God to the soul, no matter how unfathomable or seemingly threatening, is the true test of whether one loves God truly [/b]or loves their own life.

  103. avatar
    KM January 7, 2009 at 7:48 pm #

    It’s a shame that not enough time was devoted to present even the safe room interviews. I know the officer testified so maybe the documents were entered as evidence. I think the prosecution dropped the ball on that because the arrest affidavit was partly based on those interviews.

    But, life goes on and reading more of the same on the SC website is turning my stomach. They are so self righteous and sure that everyone else is wrong. The few outsider’s who have posted there have already learned that they don’t really care to hear another point of view.

    This probably sounds harsh but aside from their families most people in New Mexico and even fewer people around the country could care less where WB is or what the people at SC are doing. There are so many other things going on in our world that few people have time to devote to the mindless ramblings of the women posting on the SC site. The Governor is having legal troubles of his own (he withdrew as the nominee for Obama’s Secretary of Commerce) and the other people they are writing to probably file the letters away in the luny-bin file.

    If one or more of them wants to die by starvation, no one is going to stop them. I doubt the state will let a convicted sex offender out of prison just so someone will eat. Sad for their families but they are adults and no one can stop them without a lot of legal wrangling.

    The sole purpose of the charges and subsequent trial was to protect children from being sexually exploited and thanks to the jury who saw through WB’s act and the judge who was not intimidated by their threats the children, at least for now, are safe. Maybe by the time the younger girls are old enough to do what they want the others will have come to their senses, but it seems unlikely.

    Anyway, I’ve enjoyed discussing this case with many of you who post here and I was even fortunate to meet some of you in person. I wish everyone a good year and for those of you with family members and friends at SC I hope that things get better for you.

    I’ll be around this blog checking out the other stories Mark covers and I’ll check Prudence’s blog every now and then so perhaps we’ll chat another day.

    God bless!

  104. avatar
    Stephanie January 7, 2009 at 8:17 pm #

    Jesus never had to lay naked with children to heal them.

  105. avatar
    raycot January 7, 2009 at 8:25 pm #

    Posted by Hanifa on January 7th at 5:37 PM

    “If any man will say that he follows God and yet, will not go into areas outside of the perceived “safety zone” when asked to do so by God, that soul deceives itself.”

    Who is it who is who will not go into areas outside of the “safety zone”? Come out here, in the real battle zone, with the rest of us then if you dare…otherwise you are only deceiving yourself.

    This was a test. God knew that you couldn’t handle much, so he made your burden light. Still, you failed.

  106. avatar
    ron January 8, 2009 at 5:46 am #

    The smaller your world, the more you are ruled by superstition, fear, and ignorance. I wonder if Strong City has considered serpant handling? Do they still burn witches?

  107. avatar
    AG January 8, 2009 at 10:09 am #

    No… they have the “chair” instead… If someone is out of line they used to have to sit it the chair in the middle of a circle of believers and be the recipient of lots of group help to get you back on course.

  108. avatar
    ron January 8, 2009 at 11:13 am #

    Nice brainwashing technique! Cant have anybody thinking for themselves or asking too many questions.

  109. avatar
    hanifa January 8, 2009 at 1:03 pm #

    Ron and Raycot

    This is the tenth day in which Esther has taken no food.

    Hanifa

  110. avatar
    ron January 8, 2009 at 1:05 pm #

    It is her choice!

  111. avatar
    ron January 8, 2009 at 1:15 pm #

    I just asked God if Esther could eat, and he said yes!
    Please give her the good news!

  112. avatar
    Jan January 8, 2009 at 1:50 pm #

    Hanifa,

    That is really so very sad. I honestly can not imagine that Wayne or “Michael,” would want her to die in protest of his sentencing. I am especially puzzled by her actions because of Wayne’s own words, which he clearly stated in his press conference after the verdict, that these actions on his part were aimed at offending the State. He said he expected the verdict. Did he just not expect the sentence? Then perhaps he should have acquired a lawyer that might have taken a different direction for his defense. Or perhaps Wayne should have listened to his council and not taken the stand. There are several different paths Wayne could have chosen, including accepting the plea bargain offered.

    But the point I am trying to make is, why is Esther not realizing all of this, including Wayne’s own acceptance that he did this to offend? One has to accept the consequences of one’s actions. It would seem that by stopping his fast in prison, Wayne has accepted this. Why does Esther expect something different now, when there was so much that maybe could have done prior that might have changed the outcome.

    Esther please You should reconsider what you are doing. I cannot believe your friend Wayne would want you to die for him. When he gets released from prison I would think he would want you there for him.

  113. avatar
    Johnny D. Miller January 8, 2009 at 5:07 pm #

    Hanifa, I know you may have the opinion that I am not in any position to comment on the current affairs there at Strong City, since you would see numbered with the transgressers in the world, but I have known you for almost 20 years and I find it difficult to believe that you are going to sit by calmly and watch your daughter Esther slowly starve herself to death. I know you all believe that this is the will of God, but I say to you plainly, if God wanted Wayne to not be in prison, God would have moved His hand and had Wayne win his court case. Can’t you do the most for the cause of God by simply waiting on God to do what He is going to do in His own sweet time. Wayne said that he needed to go away, so the Holy Spirit (Comforter) would come. After Jesus ascended into Heaven, it is recorded that the faithful waited calmly for the event. They did not run ahead of God and do things to force His hand. They faithfully waited on God to do His promised work. And God aarded them for their faith. It appears that Wayne is doing just that as he is waiting on God, doing what is required and living his life one day at a time. Perhaps the solitude of Prison will be a blessing for Wayne. Why don’t you all do the same? Be in the moment and wait on God for the deliverance. To me it appears that you have no faith at all. By taking these matters into your own hands you are in a position of taking it out of God’s Hands. And naturally Father will stand by and let you do it. He is not one who interfers in the affairs of man, and He will let Strong City create effects from causes that simply should never had to be. Why are you doing these things? Please let things be, and run their natural course. God is well able to do His work without your help. Let’s not be in too big of a hurry to fill that little graveyard before it’s time. God knows what He is doing, and He will do it.
    Please believe Him.

    Johnny Miller

  114. avatar
    Sam Redman January 8, 2009 at 6:06 pm #

    Very sad about the fasting of Esther (if she really does kill herself). She’s made that announcement on Wayne Bent’s website… that she is going to fast until they release him (of course, she knows that won’t happen). In case, there are those who need a refresher… Esther is one of Wayne Bent’s (former) concubines. She was not one of the minors. Although very child-like, she was of legal age. Esther was the girl made famous in the BBC documentary, who stood at the sink, telling how she got naked with Bent (she said he was God) and how once she stripped, he cajoled her into doing a bit more than just disrobing. I’ll never forget her line, “It never crossed my mind,” telling about how Bent surprised here when he told her to come get into his bed with him for a little fondling.

    I actually have no problem with someone having the right to commit suicide if they wish (really depends on the circumstances, because some people, who are really mentally ill, should have intervention… it’s a tough call). But, it is against the law… so our society doesn’t approve in any situation. However, I really wonder if she isn’t just doing this to just to get publicity (and has no intention of going all the way). One problem here is that they have done these “death fasts” so many times that we have no way of knowing the level of sincerity. The last suicidal faster there was “Bernice,” who was going to fast until God raised a couple of people from the dead and then “translated” all of them right up to heaven. Obviously, she ate before that happened.

    Maybe Esther’s method is that she is depending on some public welfare agency rushing in to take her to the hospital at just the last moment. Since they are isolated and there are no “independent” observers, we have no way of even knowing if she is sneaking a bit of food now and then… some protest “fasters” (in other times and situations) have used little things which they said were ok… not just water. Her water may have vitamins… sugar and maybe even liquid amino acids (protein), we don’t know. My guess is that she is just wanting to get a lot of media attention and will stop just in time (maybe a telepathic message from Bent will call it all off). In some states, she would be safe, because there are agencies (but, maybe not in New Mexico) which would move to have her hospitalized, not for fasting… no one cares about even extended fasting (but, for a suicide threat). It could be that because she has now announced that she is doing it suicidally, some authoritative group will be compelled move to stop it (at least she can hope so, if she isn’t really serious about suicide).

    They certainly chose the prettiest one (Wayne was a sly old dog luring her into his bed.) Probably many “consummations” were required (their use of that term “consummation” always bugs me… the word actually only means the first sex in a marriage… not the ongoing fun). I can see why they picked the pretty one for the big suicidal “run.” That’s clever from a PR standpoint. They knew no one would care much about any of those other gals (too homely by our culture’s superficial standards to arouse any public concern).

    I found this site:

    The New Mexico Suicide Intervention Project

    http://nmsip.org/

    Crisis Information
    In the event of a Mental Health Emergency,

    Call: 1.800.273.8255

    Maybe, that number should be called. Those people might know what to do and what emergency agency would act to stop this suicide attempt.

    — Sam

  115. avatar
    Stephanie January 8, 2009 at 8:46 pm #

    This is the tenth day in which Esther has taken no food.

    Hanifa

    And you are going to watch her take her own life. I’m very sorry for all of you.

  116. avatar
    CryTears January 8, 2009 at 10:41 pm #

    I can’t help but recall a dream Johnny Miller wrote about…5 graves there in SC, a few left unfilled at this time.
    I have a strong feeling this is NOT for attention.
    She is terribly deceived and believes this “man” mr waybent is god. She’s so in love with him and destined to kill herself over this.
    I think she will be the placed in the ground next.
    Perhaps this will be a huge wake up call for those in SC…but I doubt mr waybent will wake up from his “dream”…he’s demon possessed and mentally insane.
    Thats pretty bad combination, not easily removed.
    The saga continues.
    The picture on their web site of waybent standing on the rock…that looks terribly spooky.
    Reminds me of a corpse wrapped in sheets.
    Hope mr Bent is happy with him self!
    Now he’s not only got broken marriages, broken lives and destroyed people…pretty soon he’ll have a dead follower.
    Fruits of WB spirit! God is NOT pleased!
    I say its time for him to give up his little game, throw in his robe before anyone else joins the graves.
    Where will this end…how far will he take this?
    Just shows and proves, its all about WayBent!
    Always has been, always will be!
    He is going to have to pay for this and its not there in Las Vegas jail!
    Those mill stones are awfully heavy and the ocean is very deep!
    What a sad sick cult this is…nothing but sadness.

  117. avatar
    Tori January 8, 2009 at 11:24 pm #

    Hanifa- Why do you let Ester do this if Wayne wont even die for his own cause? Wayne conveniently backs out of his fasts, but will one who is more sincere do the same? Oh Hanifa… love your daughter and teach her to live for God, not die for Wayne.

  118. avatar
    Stephanie January 9, 2009 at 2:43 am #

    Hanifa if you allow your own child to kill herself this will be your doing. You are accomplice to her death.

    Wayne Bent is eating, laying in his jail cell, drawing in breath, maybe even he’s even laughing or feeling at peace.

    Please. God gave you life, it is not yours to take.

    Please save your daughter’s life. There are millions of women who want a child so badly and cannot I am one of those women, and here you are allowing to let your child’s life slip away. This is so very sad to me.

  119. avatar
    Jan January 9, 2009 at 8:30 am #

    Sadly, I have not seen one news article on this reported “fast,” by Strong City member Esther. So if it is being done to gain media attention or
    hopefully change or alter Wayne Bent’s sentence thus far it is not working. Hopefully since Esther posted her “I Will Not Support This,” she has changed her mind or maybe her friends and family have cleared her mind. Or maybe Wayne or the good Lord above has told her this is not necessary, to lose a precious life in the name of Wayne Bent.

  120. avatar
    CryTears January 9, 2009 at 6:30 pm #

    A quote from mr Bent when he was Michael:
    We have left off battling with these beastly entities, and now the battle is God’s alone. We have been brought to our extremity by the attacks of the state and former brethren who are riding on the back of the beast. We believe this is all arranged of God, to bring us to the place where we can receive His deliverance, and know without question it came from Him, and not our own efforts. There is no earthly help now, and we have no strength of our own. Father has given us these instructions:

    Ye shall not need to fight in this battle: set yourselves, stand ye still, and see the salvation of the Lord with you, O Judah and Jerusalem. II Chron. 20:17

    KM, Jan, Tori, Stephanie and a few others…you words are more than Kind hearted and TRULY what the Lord would have said Himself. WE are His hands, WE are His feet, and WE are HIS mouth as He moves upon hearts to convey what He wants these people to know.

    If this dear soul would only take to heart what her friend Michael wrote on his site, that THIS battle is Gods alone, that God brought you here for your deliverance, not of anyones efforts, no need to fight, to stand still and SEE your Salvation!
    If you are DEAD…you then cannot be able to stand still, nor can you see!
    Think about this dear one!
    These words are from your leaders own pen!
    Do you NOT believe him?
    IF you do, then you will stop your fast.
    If not, then we will ALL know you never believed in him and simply want to die because you don’t wish to face the embarrassment of having been “duped” by mr bent.
    But if you eat and let God be your witness…then I will know that YOU believe in the words of mr bent.
    I pray your resurrection not be in the second one.
    Death is forever, twinkling of an eye is but a flash.
    Its your decision in showing the world in whom you believe in.
    Sadly…the state could care less if you killed yourself by committing suicide by starvation.
    But God does. Please don’t take the life he gave you!
    Please think about this…save it for another day when you’re able to think thru things much clearer.
    I hope to see you in the New Earth…but if you kill yourself, I know you will NOT be there.
    Sister White had lots to say regarding all this. I wish she were here to show you.
    You are a beautiful woman with a healthy body.
    I am an older woman who has a very diseased body with a terminal illness and I suffer from horrible pain every single moment of my life.
    But I still have a strong will to live and I praise God for every single breath He gives me.
    I would never be selfish enough to take my own life because that would be a slap in Gods own face as He gave me this body and is His Temple to Glorify Him any way I can.
    Do NOT destroy His Temple He set up in you!

  121. avatar
    ron January 9, 2009 at 8:33 pm #

    I see Jeff is asking for donations for an appeal. Why doesnt Jeff and the others get jobs?!!!!

  122. avatar
    jlbworld January 9, 2009 at 10:45 pm #

    Jeff Bent asking for appeal money …

    Perhaps someone should remind them of the assets they already have! Here is a refresher from an earlier post by Mr. Redman:

    “Perhaps you are not aware that they own “free and clear” prime ranch land, worth perhaps a million dollars or more. This isn’t just raw land, but it has been developed with access roads and “improvements” (buildings with utilities, including plumbing). I am sure that the best law firm in New Mexico would hasten to their aid and accept their deed as collateral. The people on the land could take jobs in nearby towns to repay the loan. Since they are self-sufficient now from other income… the income of 40 or so working people (at just minimum wages, 8 to 10 thousand dollars per week) could all go toward retiring that obligation. A huge sum would be amassed rather quickly.

    But, they don’t even need to mortgage their property. They have over 350 acres. With only 50 residents, they could keep fifty acres and sell off 300 (probably worth $10,000 an acre).”

  123. avatar
    Stephanie January 10, 2009 at 4:21 am #

    Message to the people of Strong City:

    Do what I have to do in my world in order to obtain monies. Get a job and earn it.

    You have more money than I do wrapped up in your land. Maybe you can sell parts of it off to fund an appeal.

    See in the real world people like me have to get up and go to work for my money. I guess this is just part of being a slave for the beast.

    Good luck to you,
    Steph

  124. avatar
    Stephanie January 10, 2009 at 4:25 am #

    They would rather take hand outs from people who are living with an economic crisis that actually have to get out and work a job, than do anything to remain self sufficient.

    Their own actions on that land brought them to where they are now. I cannot believe the oddity of their posts on that site. One day you have a young woman pledging suicide over Wayne being in prison, with a mother encouraging it, then the following day a post begging for money to save their leader.

    Someones priorities are truly messed up.

  125. avatar
    James January 10, 2009 at 7:03 am #

    What is the point of fasting for God to free Wayne if Jeff is raising money for an appeal? How much BS can someone swallow before they choke?

  126. avatar
    Quote the Law January 10, 2009 at 8:25 am #

    Before Wayne went to jail he talked about fasting while in jail. Many here moaned and complained about it. They said he should be thinking of others instead of himself and that he should not fast. So while in jail he stops the fast from food and now the same ones complain that he is a coward. Do they not consider that maybe he was thinking of those who were fasting with him? Does anyone have enough decency about themselves to have considered this?

    So now comes Esther who is fasting for Michael as he has fasted for others and the drum beats are going again about how this is so wrong. If she were to stop at God’s command would you call her a coward too? If past comments remain true to form, the hecklers would find something wrong with it.

    Before Wayne went to jail there was some conjecture on here about a possible appeal. So now the word goes out that there might be one and the war drums are going again about the wrongness in it and telling them how to go about it, if they do.

    No matter what happens the howling mob on this site will complain about it. Someone mentioned that there is BS at Strong City, but I have seen enough here to require waders.

  127. avatar
    Quote the Law January 10, 2009 at 8:35 am #

    I posted this once, and no one answered the question. Why not?

    He touched their chest above the mammary gland area. That area is OFTEN unclothed in woman of all ages. IF they had had a bikini on and he touched the EXACT same spot in the EXACT same manner as the girls indicated, would he have broken the law?

    Because they were naked all kinds of conjectures go on about the placement of his hand and the position of it. The girls pointed to where he touched them with his hand.

    I still say it is conjecture, supposition and prejudice that sentenced Wayne Bent to jail.

  128. avatar
    James January 10, 2009 at 8:40 am #

    An appeal will bring out more details, and just like the film and the previous trial, it will show that Wayne is a cult leader who has broken the law, and controls people who are weak enough to let him. Strong City is nothing new or unique.
    Also, if it wasnt for the media and internet exposure that Wayne promoted, you guys could twist religion and each other anyway you wanted and no one would care. But when you push yourself into the public area, just like the government and politicians that you guys complain about, you become fair game for others opinions.

  129. avatar
    Johnny D. Miller January 10, 2009 at 9:57 am #

    Sometimes I see a need to come to the defense of my former brethren in the LOR. Sometimes they need a little help, for in reality there are a very few people out there who understand them. I have walked many miles in their shoes. I do this only out of love for them. I could have just as easily said nothing. So here goes. I posted a couple of months back about the work possibilities of the Clayton, NM area. They live 41 miles from the nearest grocery store (Clayton, NM)… 31 miles from the nearest school or gas station (Des Moines, NM)… 71 miles from the nearest town with resturants, shopping centers (Raton,NM)… and 95 miles from the nearest Walmart (Trinidad, CO). The areas main industry is cattle and ranch related. There are more cattle in Union county than there are people. Raton is an old mining town… they closed down the last mine there 5 years ago. Trinidad is the only area that is growing, because of its closeness to skiing areas, and also because the city council there is very people friendly in relaxing city ordances to make new business there thrive and prosper. The city of Raton is as crooked as the day is long. Clayton is a very small town, doesn’t even have a McDonalds. Plus the fact that Strong City is out in the middle of no-where… and there is a little bit of a problem with the economy lately with 7 1/2% unemployment nationwide. Work possibilities for the Strong City people are next to nil. I know, I lived there for 6 years and worked at a propane company in Raton. There are no jobs in the NE corner of New Mexico. There is no new construction jobs in Raton at all because of the “crooked” founding fathers in that town who control the city government and discourages new competition from coming in. The city council members and mayor own all the main businesses in Raton, so permit approvals are always turned down if a new business will take away customers who shop down town. Ranchers make money from sales of their cattle, which are sold in the spring and the fall, when calfs are born. They also make money from leasing their land out to hunters and from selling alfalfa. The ladies there at Strong City cleaned houses in the area and some of the men used to do handyman work also in the area. There is no job market there at all, unless you are willing to travel 100 miles one way to work each day, or relocate. This is why the have their new government at Strong City, and everyone lives off the SS checks of all the retired folks there, which has been enough to pay all the bills, taxes, and keep everyone fed. Basically nobody there has to work now, but as older folks die off, the money in the pot gets smaller. So you all see the picture now. Sure, they could all be allowed to go back to work, but they have already sold off most of their vehicles and are down to a small motor pool, to save on auto insurance. Sure, they could elect to sell off some more of their land, but who would buy it in the current market that we have today? If they sell off the improved land that is under their feet, where would they all live? They have no where else to go to in mass exodus. They sold off all their own personal houses and lands over 15 years ago, including Wayne. And despite a lot of peoples fears, I do not believe that Wayne has a nest-egg saved up in some secret bank accounts which he has be maintaining this past 20+ years… but then I could be wrong… I’ve been wrong before.

    I am surprised to see Strong City turning to lawyers and the powers of the world as their saviours now… This is not the LOR that I grew up in since 1988. What happened to the power of God for them? What happened to the faith of the saints? Are their eyes slowly being opened to some fresh realities brought out by current revelations that the true God is showing to them? Does the God of heaven have His ways of humbling this small group of people stuck between a rock and a hard place? Sometimes it is a good thing to be stuck in the cleff of a rock ! Just ask Moses. Sometimes it is a good thing to also be in a pit, as it forces one to look up and ask for help.

  130. avatar
    EMC January 10, 2009 at 10:29 am #

    The people of Strong City are once again re-writing their words to present themselves in the best light. Danielle/Ashley’s post used to have 37 comments. They now show only 25 posts, and comments are closed.

    Hanifa’s post regarding the necessity of sex in the prophecy is gone, as is one I remember as very innocuous from Grace regarding abuse.

    I am so sad that they seem to be relentlessly pursuing such a narrow future.

  131. avatar
    Sam Redman January 10, 2009 at 12:05 pm #

    To Quote the Law – as they say in the courtroom,

    “Asked and answered.”

    ….only about ten times in this thread.

    — Sam

  132. avatar
    ron January 10, 2009 at 12:59 pm #

    I understand that Strong City is a remote place, but sometimes you have to move to where you can find a job. I had to sell my house and move 2 counyies away so I could continue to support my family. When the chips are down, be a man and do what needs to be done.
    As far as the fasting goes, there is a difference between fasting privatly so only God knows, and going on a public hunger strike hoping to get sympathy or to change an outcome. Like a three year old holding his breath until he gets his way, this kind of tantrum is usually ignored or laughed at.

  133. avatar
    CryTears January 10, 2009 at 1:03 pm #

    Non of what is said coming from mr Bent or his followers adds up.
    He promised…PROMISED emphatically they’d be delivered that Oct 31, 2007. Freedom, Liberty!
    Next thing WB…extended his claims one year.
    Ooops! forgot…Year of Jubilee!
    Once again they missed their pick up call, and god didn’t deliver them as mr Bent promised.
    Don’t ya just hate that when God fails to behave!

    Mr Bent first claims was Gods plan…
    “To offend the world!” oooo-kay….(eyebrows raised)
    But then claims “IT didn’t happen!” What???????
    Oooooo-kaaaayyyy! (roll-eyes)

    He promised NOT to bail out, next day did just that.
    Now forget the OK’s! Just roll eyes!

    Then mr Bent says he will fast unto death, won’t serve time in prison, like little wild bird, laying on the cold cement floor, near death, unresponsive.
    (crowd sighs….)
    3 days later he’s trading fish sticks for carrot sticks watching noon news in day room!
    (Crowds scoffing, huffing loudly!)

    He wrote endless negatives about anyone Catholic, warned to have nothing to do with,
    Compared them as part of “The Beast”
    That the government WAS “The Beast” of Revelation.

    Next thing you know,
    He’s saddled up “The Beast”, pulling its reins,
    spurring its sides riding it like a wild cowboy!
    Yeeee-haw!

    Sadly was nothing more than one of those Wal-Mart store kiddie play horses doing its intended “job”.…
    The state adding the first quarter.
    When the ride was over he’d gone nowhere!
    He got his ride!
    The crowd was watching and witnessing his good ol “Wild West horse ride!
    It went up, it went down! Its over!
    He got just what “HE” “paid” for!
    But now….
    Wanting another free ride!
    And he’s wanting more free quarters!?!?!
    He needs to get his own piggy bank full of quarters!

    SOMEONE….ANYONE…go unplug that horse!

  134. avatar
    Tori January 10, 2009 at 1:06 pm #

    Johnny… they chose to live there in the middle of nowhere. The job situation and even where they are at with limited carpool and resources are part of that choice. If they continue to live there, they will need to get creative on how they make money or something. It is all part of their choice of where they are living and how they are living.

    Its funny, Ive come to their defense at times too… but sometimes its harder and harder to defend them the further they get out there. I guess the biggest lesson in this is that these people are not stupid… this could have happened to anyone more easily than you might think. All it takes is little by little giving your own choices and conscience to leaders or ministers… it can happen so subtly that you dont even realize what is happening. That is why I look at the people at SC with compassion rather than disdain, because it could easily been me there had God not opened my eyes. Like you Johnny, I still love many of the people there and hope that they see where they are truly at. So yes, this can be a blessing that Wayne is where he is… God can use this for good.

  135. avatar
    raycot January 10, 2009 at 3:12 pm #

    With the internet you don’t have to be in the middle of things to have a successful business. They could set up an online store selling crafts or maybe handmade clothes, knitted blankets etc. I know there are a lot of parents who are disgusted with the fashions that are available for their kids nowadays so there might be some demand for more modest handmade clothing if there are any seamstresses there. They could even resell other suppliers goods online without ever having to stock them. All their business could be done online and through the US mail without anyone (customers) even knowing it was Strong City owned if that’s what they wished. They could even turn “Strong City” into a brand name representing whatever values they wanted it to (quality, handmade, family values, etc…oh wait…scratch the last one). They seem to have the internet savvy so it shouldn’t be a problem. They could market their internet skills to other businesses who need webpages created and maintained, without ever leaving home. This would entail some risk and probably take some time to get established though so it wouldn’t raise the cash they want right now.

  136. avatar
    Stephanie January 10, 2009 at 4:47 pm #

    Quote the Law – if you and your people dislike the mob so much, then stop pan handling on your web page.

    Johnny D. Miller – I understand, but I cannot feel sorry for these people. I have to commute 1 1/2 hours to my job there and back every day but one to put food on my table. I cannot pity them. They are not helpless beings. If they want money they can work for it as I do. As it is, they don’t like my world correct? I’m part of the beast correct? And yet they want to ask for money from the mob.

    All of this while someone starves herself to death as the mother stands idly by watching.

    I know people who are truly truly suffering in their lives. There are people starving and in need of food in other countries. Sorry but my pity for them has long worn out.

  137. avatar
    KM January 10, 2009 at 5:45 pm #

    Just a little food for thought on our particular lots in life and the choice we make whether to be happy with where we are or to blame others for not doing something to help us.

    Yesterday in the grocery store a mother with 4 young children was trying to decide whether to buy a big bucket of ice cream for her 5 year old little girl’s birthday party. The problem was if they didn’t eat it all it would melt. They live 45 miles from our town and have no electricity, gas or running water. No phone, internet, TV, etc.

    I asked the Mom if it was hard and she said somedays it was difficult but the upside was there were none of the distractions of TV or video games. They use kerosene for cooking and reading and keep warm with a wood burning stove. The kids are home-schooled up to high school and they were very sweet polite children.

    I thought to myself, here are good people who take their given lot in life without complaint and are happy, loving people. The Dad had the appearance of someone who works hard to provide what he can for his family and even without what most of us consider necessities it was so obviously a loving home.

    I was thinking about buying something for them but I wasn’t sure if they would take it so I just wished the little girl “Happy Birthday”! She came up to me with a big smile on her face and hugged me. You can’t buy that kind of precious love!

  138. avatar
    Sam Redman January 10, 2009 at 9:45 pm #

    Asking for donations from easy street

    Wayne Bent,the would-be messiah is in prison (with a ten year sentence) and now his crew is asking for donations so that they can launch an appeal. They are saying that, although they have the income and the assets so that 50 people can live on a grand 350 acre estate without any of them having to hold a job, that they are too poor to hire an attorney for an appeal for their former messiah and so now they are asking the public to contribute to pay those expenses.

    If the “church” were to do a full disclosure of all assets and income, then what they represent (about their state of poverty) would be believable. Most reputable non-profit organizations asking for solicitations go to great pains to make their internal financial records transparent (not just public, but certified by a nationally recognized accounting firm). Wayne often used the expression that they lived on a “sea of glass,” meaning that nothing they did was hidden, that everything was open to public scrutiny, which is a rather obtuse interpretation of the Revelation 15:2 reference to the sea of glass. But, irrespective of the accuracy of that meaning, it is significant that Bent frequently proclaimed how totally open they were in everything they did. However, that is just simply not true. They don’t reveal anything other to give hints which suggest that they are reputable in their financial arrangements, like to say that they have put their assets into a “trust.” However, trusts can have many definitions and some are revocable. Trusts may be created purely for privacy. The terms of a will are public, the terms of a trust are not. Unless those terms are made public, I am highly suspect that this is just another way to hide assets (this is not at all what you would expect from a religious group, seeking donations).

    And saying they can’t work. How ridiculous. They are internet savvy. Lots of money is able to be made offering your services as internet professionals without leaving home. Plus, it would not hurt for a few of them to take a sabbatical from their lives of ease to go away and work somewhere else for a while. Many locations in the country are booming. Like Dallas, Texas, where hundreds of illegal aliens still stand at six job pickup locations around the city every morning. They are hired for ten bucks an hour and more… all that want to work are placed by eight a.m. every day. Skilled workers (who are computer competent) can get jobs here easily (they don’t have to stand on corners). If they move here, I will help them find employment in a few days (and temporary apartment suites are rentable at very low rates). What a “crock” to say, “we are so poor, because we are stuck here living in luxury on our sprawling estate with a guaranteed income.” Nonsense.

    I have no problem with Jeff Bent raising money. I say “milk it” for all it’s worth. They have provided a lot of great entertainment (and they should be compensated). Ben Anthony made money off of them. National Geographic has… BBC has. I am happy for Bent’s crew to cash in. They are continuing to provide entertainment with their ongoing drama (that fast should be good for several weeks of good wholesome fun).

    But, I do think that they are very dishonest in their pitch… sticking all of your assets into a trust doesn’t make it where you can’t afford an attorney, because whomever manages that trust could free up funds for the defense. Total expenses for that appeal process, all the way until it’s ultimate resolution (denial) will only be about $15,000 (unless they think it’s constitutional… and that would take quite a bit more). If they don’t plan to pursue it as a constitutional question (like freedom of religion) then it is a fairly routine procedure. They have land they could sell (as described previously). And for anyone to say that it hasn’t sufficient value in today’s real estate market… that is a ludicrous statement. Without listing it (you determine your own asking price) you don’t know what you could get. If you don’t get offers… then you can describe its lack of marketability, but not until then.

    But even though it seems that they are lying about needing the money, I still wholeheartedly support them in their efforts to try to grab some bucks from a gullible public (go ahead… paypal ’em a few bucks. I am). It’s a business (and they have learned how to work the system and be a tax-free paradise) and improving their situation (to make the estate richer) is a worthy goal (I support business ventures), because they have earned it providing the high level of entertainment which they have to so many. I am looking forward to the next stages in the saga… I pay for movies, why not for their knock-em-dead performances?

    — Sam

  139. avatar
    Quote the Law January 10, 2009 at 11:46 pm #

    Sam:

    My question. “IF they had had a bikini on and he touched the EXACT same spot in the EXACT same manner as the girls indicated, would he have broken the law?”

    Your answer, “Asked and answered.”

    ….only about ten times in this thread.”

    WHERE? Tell me date, time and poster? Just one will be sufficient.

  140. avatar
    AG January 11, 2009 at 12:46 am #

    Quote the Law…. Dude. Seriously. She didnt have a bikini on, she was totally in the nude. You need to deal with what is, rather than make arguments over imaginary circumstances.

  141. avatar
    Stephanie January 11, 2009 at 3:40 am #

    Those little girls were taught wrong. They were groomed to get their clothes off because Wayne lusted after them. Even if these people got these girls stripped down to a bikini (glorified underwear) it’s still wrong.

    Colossians 3:12 says “Since God chose you to be the holy people whom he loves, you must clothe yourselves with tenderhearted mercy, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience.”

    I do blame the women involved in the grooming process even though they are not taking responsibility for it. Wayne is serving his sentence for their crimes too.

  142. avatar
    ron January 11, 2009 at 8:09 am #

    I have to agree with Sam. I havent been more entertained since the O.J. trial. I have even wondered at times if this wasnt some kind of interactive sociological experiment.
    But as the saying goes, truth is stranger than fiction. I have learned alot about how our perspectives can be so different, and how difficult it is to be on a jury and only get glimpses of the whole picture. An appeal would surely entertain us all for another year!

  143. avatar
    Johnny D. Miller January 11, 2009 at 9:23 am #

    I can’t believe what I have just read. You know folks, some of us here on this forum really have been through some rather difficult times as a result of this Cult and court trial. This is not entertainment for us, far from it. It has been real pain, suffering, lose, blood and sweat for some of us. I lost a wife, others lost loved ones as well, and still others are seeing family and friends in difficult places and situations. Still more pain and suffering can yet still come to others…..This is not Hollywood. This is real life and death. If you want entertainment, please call your cable provider today and get hooked up. I am ashamed of how some of you try to appear to have some evidence of having a heart of compassion and love, and then just turn right around and say something as cruel as what I have just read. I’m sorry if this pricks your consciences, but some of you have forgotten that we all have trials and troubles in our lives, and surely none of you would want to have your lives cut open and displayed as I and other former members of the LOR have had to have happen to us. Sure, we have allowed these things to happen to us, but so have you allowed things to happen in your lives as well, and just because most of your hurtful events are not publically known on a open forum, does not mean that you are above the ability to have compassion for those of us who have been exposed and made to suffer for your (sic) “entertainment”. But we have allowed this exposure for not just our healing, but for yours as well, so this particular sin would never have the opportunity to raise it’s ugly head ever again. Remember we are all connected, one way or another. I personally could not stomach another trial. I have seen enough pain for three lifetimes.

  144. avatar
    Jan January 11, 2009 at 10:01 am #

    Yes, it is real life but the reason it has been exposed to the world is because the residents of Strong City wanted it that way. They have used the most powerful media tool available, the internet to get every word and deed “out there,” for all to see. If they wanted privacy, as much of the rest of the world does, then they would have acted differently. So to be offended by the way some might view their actions is rather unfair. This has become an Internet Reality show, right down to the recent postings of unfairness of the sentence, the fast of Esther and the plea for donations. I believe these people to some extent enjoy the limelight, or they would not be repeatedly showing the drama. Nevertheless, I too gave a small contribution, because I believe in our justice system and the appeal process is part of that system. I do of course feel much sympathy for you Johnny Miller and understand how personal it would be, and different. But for those of us who are observers, it quite honestly is not the same, and I don’t believe we are wrong in our feelings either.

  145. avatar
    Johnny D. Miller January 11, 2009 at 10:28 am #

    I understand fully what you are saying here Jan, and yes, reality television has made it’s mark in the American lifestyle. But we as todays society are soooo used to death and misery, thanks to the television, the internet, and the media in general. Our sports are full of violence, full contact cage fighting on pay to view, the WWF, and the senseless wars fought all over this planet, to name a few. Society is desensitized to pain and suffering, and now it is entertainment. I guess to the early Romans, seeing Christains mauled by lions was entertainment as well, but you had better not sit in the first two rolls, one may have got some blood and guts on your toga in those days. I will say no more about it, as I have said enough. Enjoy the show, and please turn off your cellphones and don’t forget to put your trash in the trashcans.

  146. avatar
    ron January 11, 2009 at 10:47 am #

    Jan said it well. I didnt mean to offend you Johnny. I know people have been hurt. Technology and Strong City’s use of the media have turned this into a Realitly show, and like some very crazy Soap Opera, I have to keep checking daily to find out what else happened.

  147. avatar
    Tori January 11, 2009 at 10:48 am #

    I think theres a balance to reach in observing SC where you can still have compassion for people there – especially the young girls that grew up there and dont know anything else. I have appreciated Rons and Philips humor… a welcome relief because the topics are so heavy at times. Its healthy to be able to laugh at some of this stuff – not because we are better, but because we have not lost the ability to laugh at ourselves as well.

    Something to keep in mind, however, these people are real and are stuck in a very destructive way of thinking. Dont lose sight of the connection we have with all humanity. To do so is to isolate yourselves, to separate yourselves from others much like SC has done. I separate myself from the crazy thinking that has gotten them where they are at, and I cant go where they have gone now… and there are quite a few of them that probably arent very pleasant to be around anymore. But my heart still goes out to them.

    I dont know that I would call it entertainment so much. Its more a living example of where a lot of wrong choices can lead people… and for that it is both fascinating and troubling.

  148. avatar
    Johnny D. Miller January 11, 2009 at 11:03 am #

    I know that Ron. I too have enjoyed the humor of many of the comments, but I am perhaps one of the most affected souls in this drama, and still in the middle of it all. It just doesn’t seem to go away for me, but I have to continue do my part to bring it all to a sensible end. And yes, it does hurt very much. It would have been nice to sort of disappeared in the cracks somewhere, but that was not God’s plan for me. Seriously, I am not angry, but more of amazed at what this world has become. Nobody knows their neighbors anymore, can’t pick up a hitchhiker, and can’t go to a public park and pat a little child on the head without someone screaming at you and calling the law. Sort of wonder if God is munching on a big bag of popcorn and eating some Raisonettes while watching this show here on earth, and He doesn’t even have cable, but His Rabbit ears are out of this world. This show is a real tearjerker for Him, I imagine. Just some more food for thought.

  149. avatar
    Kiki January 11, 2009 at 4:50 pm #

    As someone who was a member of this group for six years before Wayne became “Michael Travesser” and whose own daughter was molested by another member of this group (not Wayne–there are other child molesters in the camp who DIDN’T get caught!) I am appalled that ANY of you would contribute money to these monsters! DON’T GIVE THEM A PENNY. If you do, you just encourage their dangerous activities. What if it was YOUR wife that left you for Wayne or YOUR daughter that was manhandled by him? Would you still contribute? So why contribute when others have had their wives and daughters manhandled?

    Think about it.

  150. avatar
    Juror January 11, 2009 at 5:13 pm #

    Kiki…I agree with you. Why would anyone want to donate there hard earned money to a group that does not even want to be part of the real life. The excuse that they live so far to travel to work is just that… another excuse. If they could travel all the way to Taos for over a week why cant they travel to a job.

    Sam that was very kind of you to offer to help find a job and living for the people in SC.

  151. avatar
    CryTears January 12, 2009 at 10:10 am #

    Real life Reality shows are rated #1 these days…wouldn’t put it past those in the LOR to videotape Ester dying struggles as way to raise funds for mr bents defense.
    anything for a nickel!

  152. avatar
    Jan January 12, 2009 at 10:18 am #

    I am seriously wondering and yes worried about Esther, as we have not heard a thing regarding her fast. It would be over 12 days now since it began. There has been no follow up to her post and nothing as of yet picked up by the media. Hopefully if Esther did in fact see things more clearly and is now working her efforts toward an appeal, not a protest fast, the Strong City folks will let us all know.

  153. avatar
    James January 12, 2009 at 1:01 pm #

    It is really amazing how quick the public has lost interest in this story. I would be willing to bet that Jeff is not getting much response.

  154. avatar
    CryTears January 12, 2009 at 1:15 pm #

    I think the zero comments is tell-tale enough!
    If I were donating, supporting ANY cause, I’d certainly make comment in support after dropping my coins in the slot! Especially after seeing the lack of response.
    Like the rich man dropping coins in the collection plate! the smaller the coin the bigger the noise! Looky-me! I GAVE!
    James…Did you happen to notice they’re down to talking (voting) to themselves now!
    Perhaps they should be putting up huge bill boards there on their property…you know, so the rabbits and rattlesnakes will take notice…
    the squirrels sure have!
    Remember the quip…If someone makes a sound out in the deserted desert, can it be heard?!

  155. avatar
    Sam Redman January 12, 2009 at 7:31 pm #

    The top ten ways Strong City could raise money for the appeal.

    10. Open a vegetarian bed and breakfast in the wilderness of Strong City. Feature Wayne’s empty house as the master suite. Serve whatever food he was eating when he became the messiah.

    9. Have Bernice do another prayer fast, again ordering God to raise people “from the dead” (and this time tell God to get serious) and sell tickets so everyone can see it happen.

    8. Write a book about the amazing Strong City way to lose half your body weight by drinking only water.

    7. Do a television show and sell it to the networks, telling how to solve the economy problems by living off of a few old people’s social security checks.

    6. Tell the world that the virgins are going to pour out those plagues again unless you get a whole lot of contributions.

    5. Contact Barbara Streisand and see if she would like to pay you for doing more videos like the one where you stole her copyrighted song, “There’s a place for us” as a background.

    4. Have a contract service where Wayne Bent will haunt your enemies after he’s dead like he threatened to do to Ben Anthony and the prosecutor (and a few others) .

    3. Sell a guide to how to look sexy in long denim dresses and no makeup for attracting (much) older men with large estates and big trust funds.

    2. Print numbered limited edition copies of Wayne Bent’s prophecy graphic which showed everything ending in 2007, but revise it so it shows 2010, just to make it a hot seller.

    And the number one way they can raise money for the appeal —

    1. Have the legal aged virgins do special naked healing sessions in their private bedrooms and charge by the hour.

    — Sam

  156. avatar
    Jan January 12, 2009 at 8:11 pm #

    Sam that list is hilarious, I cannot stop laughing.

    You manage to not only share your gift of knowledge here on Mark’s forum but now you have shared maybe a greater gift, a fine sense of humor.

    I am hoping that perhaps the Strong City gals could come here to the blog and show their sense of humor and tell us what a laugh they got out of that list.

  157. avatar
    Johnny D. Miller January 12, 2009 at 8:59 pm #

    It’s not the small amount of comments that means anything, but it’s the amount of times people hit that “donate” button which says the most, and that we are not able to keep any track of.

  158. avatar
    Mack January 13, 2009 at 9:01 am #

    Very funny, the top ten list. You have to admit that this whole thing can’t really be taken seriously. When people make complete idiots out of themselves, you can’t blame the rest of us for having a harmless chuckle or two. I say – ha, ha. snicker, snicker. Maybe everyone can realize how good it is to lighten up.

    I loved the one about having Wayne Bent haunt your enemies, but with that long list of those he already said he plans to do evil to, his ghost is gonna be pretty darned busy. He said he’s gonna get the BBC documentary guy and the guy that does this blog. I guess he’s added the judge to the list and maybe now his new cellmate, maximum bob.

  159. avatar
    Claire C. January 13, 2009 at 4:11 pm #

    If anyone is still interested; tomorrow (jan 14) on the Dr. Phil Show is “Family Cult, pt 2”. And yes, the ‘family cult’ referred to is the Strong City Cult.

  160. avatar
    Beyond90Seconds January 13, 2009 at 4:15 pm #

    Thanks for the heads-up, Claire!

    Best,
    Mark

  161. avatar
    ron January 13, 2009 at 5:18 pm #

    Can we get Wayne to be on Dr. Phil?

  162. avatar
    Tori January 13, 2009 at 6:41 pm #

    Wayne on Dr Phil’s show… Wouldnt that be wild! Dr Phil would have his hands full with Wayne. I would love to hear what he would have to say… lol. Im sure Dr Phil would find Wayne and his little games very interesting indeed.

  163. avatar
    Stephanie January 13, 2009 at 10:34 pm #

    Wayne: “I’m the messiah”

    Dr Phil: “How’s that workin for ya”

  164. avatar
    Sam Redman January 14, 2009 at 7:17 am #

    That’s very funny Stephanie. And you got my creative juices going… So, here is my list,

    Dr. Phil cliches he might use with Wayne

    – What in the hell were you thinking?

    – Are you nuts?

    – You choose the behavior, you choose the consequences.

    – This is going to be a changing day in your life.

    – Are you kidding me?

    – Get real.

    – If it’s happening now, we’re gonna deal with it now!

    – Get a life.

    – If you don’t like it, then hit the door… lady!

    – You need to re-engineer your life.

    And, finally, my favorite —

    – Stop thinking the world revolves around you.

    Now, if some or most (or all) of those ring a bell… you’ve been watching way too much Dr. Phil.

    — Sam

  165. avatar
    Tori January 14, 2009 at 8:25 am #

    Nice, Sam…. LOL

    Love the “Are you kidding me?” and “Stop thinking the world revolves around you.”

    I am hoping to record this one… any suggestions where to watch it online if the recording doesnt work?

  166. avatar
    Juror January 14, 2009 at 10:11 am #

    Sam…Darn I would really like to watch Dr Phil but some of us have to work when it airs.
    Any ideas on where to watch the show?

  167. avatar
    Sam Redman January 14, 2009 at 10:56 am #

    To Juror – I have “Tivo.” I just set it to record shows when I’m gone. Unlike the idle rich people at Strong City, I also have to go to work. So, I set it this morning to grab that one and later I might convert the LOR part of the show (it evidently will not be for the whole show) into a Youtube compatible format and put it up online.

    — Sam

  168. avatar
    EMC January 14, 2009 at 11:51 am #

    Don’t ya’ll just hate it when the real world conflicts with your rich online presence?

    We, too, have DVR’d the show. I’m looking forward to seeing it when I get home. I suspect, Sam, that if you posted it, you’d get a lot of traffic – I’ve threatened the lives of anyone in the family who erases our copy!

    🙂 Anyone already seen it and want to spoil the poor working schmucks?

  169. avatar
    Jan January 14, 2009 at 11:56 am #

    EMC – it is coming up here in about 7 minutes but I would never spoil it for anyone. I respect all you good people that are out working. Should be a great discussion later on though. I am looking forward to it – I even went to the Dr. Phil site and mentioned Beyond 90 Seconds, so perhaps we will get a few new bloggers!

  170. avatar
    Beyond90Seconds January 14, 2009 at 12:09 pm #

    Jan,

    Thanks for the spreading the word!

    Best,
    Mark

  171. avatar
    Juror January 14, 2009 at 1:10 pm #

    Thanks Sam I dont have Tivo and dont know how to record so i will have my teenager look it up on youtube for me…them teenagers know all that stuff

  172. avatar
    Jan January 14, 2009 at 2:29 pm #

    I am sure Dr Phi’s show will be quite an eye opener for his viewers. He handled the topic with the greatest of love and concern as one might expect. Dr. Phil did not actually go to Strong City. There were cameras that followed the two sisters, Lorraine and Bambi, to try and reach out and show their family that remains there how much they still love them. I believe this visit must have been this past fall. It was during the period where there was much focus on the “fasting,” there.

    The cameras were not permitted beyond the entrance so the actual time the sisters spent with their loved ones was not shown. From a distance some hugs and love was shown by all. The two sisters came out of there mostly concerned over how thin they all were and that they had such an “empty,” look in their eyes.

    Although they were not able to bring them home, a cult specialist who was on the show said their visit would be meaningful, especially if and when Strong City might fall apart, with Wayne eventually going to prison. And if Jeff Bent would not take over. If and when that happened these people will need those on the outside world who have always loved them, to be there and support them. This seemed to be meaningful to the sisters.

    Unfortunately though nothing was up to date and there was no mention of anything happening currently, although they did flash across the screen about Wayne’s sentence.

    It was a good show for people that have not the depth of knowledge that we do here on Mark’s blog. And it certainly might be a shock to the average person that has no idea that these things are going on in our society.

    Certainly worth watching.

  173. avatar
    CryTears January 14, 2009 at 6:53 pm #

    Wouldn’t it be a riot, putting WB, a few cult members (a few of his favorite wives) and some of the former members in the infamous “Dr Phil house”…the house in LA that’s fully monitored with hundreds of cameras and microphones.

    Dr Phil used it for feuding families or where problematical people go to “work out” their differences or overcome addictions, prejudices and or problems.
    Of course we’d all be focused on WB’s bedroom so can watch a few of those famous healing sessions!
    …nakedness modestly blurred…
    perhaps could learn really how WB performs these healings while carefully touching of sternums as not to touch the fatty parts of the breast.
    After all that was Never about sex!…
    Well except the consummations…with the women folk!

    I was a little disappointed, expecting more of the real story instead of the “same-ol’same-ol” minus the videos of the girls hugging their family members.
    That part was great and very telling, but way too much got left out.
    More should have been mentioned regarding Esther’s fast unto death promise, the consummations like Wendy Bents “I WILL ask for the Consummation” and the Poor Jeff saga. Then a few shots thrown in of WB courtroom antics, tantrums and threats, then wrapping it up with the grand finale of his being led off in handcuffs, his promise to die in prison by fasting to death, then 3 days later ending his fast then picking up his “fishette”-sticks and fries on Friday noon! (Fishettes are soy product vegetarian version of fish sticks)

    There just was not enough time and adding in another cult story totally messed up a potentially great story.

    Just WHY hasn’t there been more info and where are the promised Court transcripts.
    And you’d think we would have heard a lot more coming from former members what really took place in the courtroom that wasn’t covered by the media.

    Seems like things are spiraling down while the real story is building underneath like ticking time bomb!
    Folks….This story ain’t even over!

  174. avatar
    Sam Redman January 15, 2009 at 2:14 pm #

    And now for something completely different…

    Mark Horner did an excellent job with his capture of the Dr. Phil show about Strong City ex-followers. But, there is another capture being displayed on the mirror site’s video page, which has something you won’t see anywhere else. Go here to view it (scroll down to the third video):

    http://strongcity2.info/videos.html

    The video on the mirror site has all of the commercials captured along with the rest of the program about Strong City. So, what’s different? Among those advertisements is a bizarre commercial (you might have seen it elsewhere previously) showing a Catholic nun causing a “sinner” to be struck down by God (no joke, that’s in there). Was that commercial handpicked or was it just “providential” that it appeared on this show? Who knows?

  175. avatar
    Jan January 15, 2009 at 6:13 pm #

    Thanks Sam for the link.

    It was again a great reminder of the collection of videos you have compiled at the Mirror Site. Not only this Dr. Phil video, but several news videos during the trial, the “Finished Work,” and “The End of the World Cult” British video, and a couple other videos after Bent was indicted. All of these videos plus the other entries on the Mirror Site are very informative, and it is great having them altogether as a reference library.

    I loved the commercial.
    Dr. Phil likes to cover all the angles so that one might not be a coincidence. It was humorous, nonetheless.

  176. avatar
    CryTears January 16, 2009 at 1:45 am #

    One fact stated on Dr Phil show really struck me….
    Was said that if/when SC begins to disintegrate…
    the ones wishing to leave or questioning and seeking truth will ONLY do so with those who they feel safe enough to communicate with.
    That being judgmental, negative and spewing ugliness just won’t be part of the equation for their leaving.
    I guess the “quip” catching more flies with honey works better than with vinegar!
    I really hope this comes to a peaceful ending and many families reunited and that there will miraculously be no more deaths!
    I wonder what the prisoners there in Las Vegas NM thought of WB after watching todays Dr Phil?!?!
    I’m thinking he didn’t make a bunch of friends and he’ll have to be isolated or protected from those who detest child molesters and those claim to be God.
    I doubt this was a good program for WB’s reputation.

  177. avatar
    Mack January 16, 2009 at 7:31 am #

    @crytears

    Wayne Bent is not in Las Vegas, NM. That was the location of the sentencing. He is in Los Lunas, NM prison facility. It is known as “The Central New Mexico Correctional Facility (CNMCF).” He might be there only for 90 days, until he is assigned to another for a longer duration. That place is mainly where they do evaluations.

    I don’t think he will have to be “isolated or protected.” With the number of people in prison for a sex charge of some kind (it is a very high percentage nowadays) that old saw about people bothering them is simply not true. I went to that prisontalk forum website mentioned somewhere on this blog site and read that it just isn’t true that they get bothered. There’s way too many and plus, prisoners are far more sympathetic than the rest of the population that people do get falsely accused.

    And, I think you are totally mistaken that he wouldn’t “make a bunch of friends.” His history shows otherwise. I think that he will adapt and other inmates will find him to be a rather agreeable fellow. This guy is a leader and he is smart (he’ll know how to play the game). That’s gonna stay the same. People who are leaders outside are leaders inside. And people like to follow him. They have for the past 30 years. I think that, like Martha Stewart, another leader type, he will be well received and make a lot of new friends.

  178. avatar
    jlbworld January 16, 2009 at 7:37 am #

    Well said Mack! I think you are absolutely correct about how Wayne will do in prison. I especially liked your line about People who are leaders outside are leaders inside. That makes a lot of sense.

  179. avatar
    Jan January 16, 2009 at 7:55 am #

    The above post by JLBworld was mine (Jan). I did not realize that Word Press had me logged in as my blogger account. I like to be who I really am here, so apologize for the confusion.

    Jan

  180. avatar
    Sam Redman January 16, 2009 at 8:54 am #

    To Mack –

    Well, I have read something different about how sex offenders are treated in prison. This article tells about what to expect. It is talking about Texas prisons, but, I’m sure it applies everywhere. Here’s the link to the article:

    http://www.paroletexas.com/articles/Dallas%20Morning%20news%20artice.htm

    This is a quote from that article:

    As much as child molesters are hated in the free world, within the walls they’re “considered scum of the earth,” Mr. Hurt says.

    Other inmates will target and assault molesters. “Inmates are very judgmental,” Mr. Hill says without irony.

    Hopefully, Wayne Bent won’t be subjected to what they talk about in that article (no one deserves that).

  181. avatar
    Betsy January 16, 2009 at 10:12 am #

    Sam, I’m curious about this new donor recruitment role you’ve taken on for Mr. Bent. Would/do you finance and recruit for any criminal that has experienced a less than stellar, yet fair, trial? Or is there something “special” about Mr. Bent in your eyes?

  182. avatar
    KM January 16, 2009 at 1:18 pm #

    In regards to the new post on the SC site:

    It’s been 18 days since the sentencing. I find it very unlikely that Ester has not taken something, whether it’s spraying her mouth with some type of nutrient in water or opening her mouth while showering.

    This whole thing is nuts. If she dies and she will if she is really doing what Jeff says she is, WB will never get out of prison. And there might be others joining him. But did you like the “way out” that Jeff mentioned – “she cannot end her fast until she sees significant movement in the reversal of this injustice”. Maybe hiring an attorney will be seen as significant movement.
    There are public defenders who do just appeals. Apparently that’s not good enough so all of the sudden SC has some money to hire a lawyer for an appeal. But, there was NO money for the first lawyer?

    As far as donations go those of you who have donated should ask for a statement of where your money is spent. They are perfectly able to tap into a trust fund for legal fees, it’s done all the time. They just don’t want to because if they spend it all some of the people might actually have to find a job.

    The people at SC are users and my taxes pay for lots of their upkeep, including WB’s public defender during the original trial. Everytime a sheriff, state police or government entity goes out to check on these people the citizens of NM are paying for it. We’re even paying for the horrible conditions poor WB is living in. Where does he think he is, the Ritz Carlton? And I won’t even go down the road of SS or food stamps.

    My take on things is harsh and although I truly care for the families and friends of those who live at SC, I have no sympathy at all for those who choose to live there.

    My donation – a quarter! Call someone who cares.

  183. avatar
    CryTears January 16, 2009 at 1:31 pm #

    Mack,
    I haven’t kept tabs on just exactly where Mr. Bent is staying at this juncture, doesn’t really matter all that much, at least not in the context of my postings regards the prisoners view and becoming vigilantes to anyone charged/convicted relating to children.
    And just what affect the Dr. Phil show had on the prisoners wherever WB was imprisoned.

    I certainly wouldn’t want to be sitting in the “day room” where a program being shown was about “ME”.
    Especially the show bringing out the fact that WB IS/WAS indeed the leader of this cult,
    in which he was convicted of not only molesting children, but also the facts that WB for years has convinced his followers into forsaking and shunning every single family member and loved ones, as well as the dissolution of all marriages/relationships within his cult.
    Basically isolating themselves from the world as those on the outside were nothing more than followers of satan!
    This program was loaded with highly charged emotional subject matters.

    Prison has a big way of intimidating anyone! Right now he’s on the bottom of the pile and he will have to work hard to “claw” his way back up to the top….a system in which he’s taught was “The Beast!”
    For some prisoners all they have left is a few loved ones and family members “on the outside” who stand by their side while they are incarcerated. So loving and caring families takes on a new meaning for those locked away .

    Perhaps I’m mistaken in my summations as I’ve based upon my own experiences as a Sheriffs Deputy years ago in the mid 1970’s. And what family members have stated of WBs “safety”(they work Fed pen and commander Police Dept.)
    They both say that WB will have to watch his back at all times.
    I can’t imagine prisoners changing their perspectives of who society views as “scum of the earth”.
    But perhaps it really does matter which news station one stays tuned to!

    Perhaps some will remember being molested as a child needing/wanting revenge, or perhaps has close loved one who was harmed or maybe someone wanting to make a name for themselves by killing “god!:”
    WB just is NOT your every day run of the mill prisoners. Even some murderers are liked and respected over his charges!
    I will continue to believe that WB will always be a target for those who despise and hate ones with such charges

    KM…perhaps some of those donating are doing so to keep their “fingers in the pie?!?!”
    Perhaps we all should donate a few pennies via PayPal. SC must pay a set amount per transaction as well as a certain percentage of any funds donated.
    Food stamps??? Really? Tell us where we all can sign up for these?!
    Maybe all their craziness is all from their licking the glue on backs of those food stamps so many years!
    Of course I jest, but Laziness does have its price!

  184. avatar
    KM January 16, 2009 at 2:24 pm #

    Could be the glue! More likely the magnetic stripe on the back of the cards. Or maybe the Taos Hummmm!

    Shoot, I’ve visited a few of the NM prisons and I wouldn’t turn my back on anyone there. There are some mighty big boys at Los Lunas and esp. the Big House!

    There isn’t much pie left at SC, although there is a huge humble pie waiting round the corner for them. They just don’t like the taste. Maybe the donators are hedging their bet on the afterlife just in case.

    I wish people donating would think of the people under the spell of WB and donate to the families to help them hire an attorney to obtain legal guardianship over them so they can get them out of there at least long enough for them to be able to think without subliminal messages playing in the background.
    Wishful thinking!

    The paypal donation thing is interesting, hmmm, now I’m hearing the Taos hum.

    Okay, back down in my foxhole, it’s getting mighty scary out there! And I have a family to care for and a job that takes me to places much more horrible than SC.

  185. avatar
    Sam Redman January 16, 2009 at 11:01 pm #

    Of course, an appeal is warranted
    Everyone (anyone) deserves a proper appeal

    A simple principle of our rights as citizens is that in a criminal trial, we are granted “substantive due process.” This involves the broad notion that a person shall not be arbitrarily deprived of his liberty. If a person is deprived of the opportunity to appeal, substantive due process rights have been violated. Every citizen should have every opportunity to appeal (his conviction or his sentence), because it is wrong if anyone has been tried in any court proceeding with errors or if his sentence has been meted out disproportionate to the circumstances.

    An appeal is not a retrial of the case, but is an examination of the trial record to ensure that proceedings were conducted in a fair manner.

    No one should ever be convicted in a trial where there were “fundamental errors (goes to the heart of the case) or harmful errors (had a probable impact on the outcome). And, no one who has been rightfully convicted in a trial should ever receive a sentence which does not take into account all of the circumstances (including prior convictions) concerning the accused and the situational facts of the crime and the opportunity and likelihood of a reoccurance. A sentence must be proprotionate when all of the circumstances are considered. In the interest of justice we should always fight for anyone who has been convicted of a crime to have the opportunity to appeal and to have their conviction overturned, if such errors and irregularities occured, or to have their sentence reduced (in the event of a rightful conviction) if it has been given out disproportionately.

    In my opinion, the sentence was draconian. Although, I do believe that Bent acted inappropriately and I consider (in my opinion) what he did was wrong, that that the circumstances of his lack of a prior record, lack of any actual sexual acts being involved and the strong testimony of witnesses (alleged as victims) that they did not feel sexually assaulted, along with the situation of his isolated living arrangement, which no longer has minors in residence (and because they could be limited by the court from even being allowed visitations) would and should be enough to indicate a lesser sentence. For example, a reasonable punishment, such as a short incarceration, accompanied by probation, which could even be a monitored house arrest with multiple restrictions, (such as no contact with minors) would be reasonable and fit the “proportionate to circumstances” stipulations (rights) provided by the law..

    The principles of the laws of our nation are such that everyone should receive a trial without harmful errors and if convicted, then be able to fairly receive a reasonable sentence, which is appropriate (and proportional) to all the circumstances. All of us should fight for the rights for every convicted person to get their chance to appeal in both of those situations.

    — Sam

  186. avatar
    KM January 17, 2009 at 12:28 am #

    He has the right to an appeal. What he doesn’t have is the right to abuse the public defender system by claiming he has NO money for an attorney YET when that same public defender system has attorney’s available to appeal his case to the courts free of charge, he decides to go with a private attorney and unwilling to sell his land or tap into his trust fund begs for private donations to pay for said attorney.

    So, add another falsehood to the story, the poor, indigent man who couldn’t afford an attorney but all of the sudden money has been found. Alleluia, It’s manna from heaven.

    Are the same people supporting WB going to support the people at SC and their families when one day the place is sold out from underneath them and they are kicked off the land to live homeless on the street because the trust fund is in the name of a few unscrupulous people. The land was purchased and supported by the followers who gave everything to the common pot and expect to be supported the rest of their lives. They built the infrastructure with their sweat, savings and social security checks. They gave up everything including spouses and children and have been subjected to intense mind control for many years. And they live with the constant expectation that translating to heaven is just around the corner.

    Will any of you go to bat for them when the rug is pulled out from underneath them in the not too distant future?

  187. avatar
    Stephanie January 17, 2009 at 12:30 am #

    I would like to know something out of sheer curiosity. Would these loving and kind people of SC be willing to donate money to me? I need help right now. I may be laid off from my job and this means I will have little money to pay my heating bill and I will have to live without heat.

    If I put up a page with a donate button on it, will Jeff Bent donate to me? Because I’m about to face some pretty rough circumstances soon.

  188. avatar
    Stephanie January 17, 2009 at 12:36 am #

    Sam; donating to WB’s cause means that I am accomplice to and in agreement with his behavior. If he gets out he will believe that it was not YOUR doing, but God’s doing. He will believe he was right all along in his behavior with these minors. So will everyone else.

    I couldn’t see anyone in SC donating money to me because I’m of the “beast” in “my world”.

  189. avatar
    Jan January 17, 2009 at 7:25 am #

    The idea of Wayne Bent appealing the court decision for some here is a difficult one to accept. Certainly many of you have a personal connection with this case either as a former LOR member, or one that still has family there, or maybe you are just one that has been the victim of a similar crime. Fortunately in our Judicial system those with ties or potential ties are the first jury members to be excused in jury selection because both sides want the case tried without prejudice.

    Now, following the sentence we are at a new stage in the judicial process, reexamining the trial to make sure that it was all handled in the proper manner. The defense has the right, and actually it is their duty to go over the transcripts, examining for potentials errors, or mistakes that might have occurred based on the law. It is part of the Judicial System.

    Even though many of you do not seem to like or have much respect for Wayne Bent, it honestly does not matter. Each and every man or woman who has been convicted of a crime still has and deserves this right to appeal. Only by a very close examination of the transcripts can it be determined if an appeal will even have a chance. But the fact that Wayne’s son has quickly taken the actions he has, makes me think they feel there is something there that might grant an appeal. Of course only time will tell.

    So many people it seems in society take the position of revenge over rehabilitation. I have witnessed people on line with so much hate in them against a possible guilty person and their family it is indeed scary how the minds of some works today. Why are some filled with so much hate? In this case it truly does not seem like the punishment fits the crime, not when one compares it to the sentence of others committing similar crimes. And while this is not in any way, what an appeal would be based on, it does have something to do with why a few of us might be willing to offer a small donation for Wayne to get the appeal process started.

    I realize that Wayne himself has played fast and lose with his ideas about what he did, why he did it and the system itself and renaming all of us here on the outside world the “Beast.” But to me this is different. This is a son trying to find a way to get his father back home with him. Maybe I am just a sucker for family love but the idea of Wayne Bent spending 10 years in prison seems truly wrong. A 67 year old man poses no threat to society as a whole. His life at Strong City is truly remote and his people love him. I have no right to dictate whether their religion and beliefs are right or wrong. I just see a group of people that want their leader home. And I see a son that is spear heading that effort. No one has to contribute unless they want to. But it does not mean that those of us who feel inclined have not thought it through.For some of us it is based on a feeling that this sentence was much to severe and Wayne would have been better served as would the State by probation and a life confined to his home.

    There is a lot to consider. None of this makes for an easy light hearted discussion. Many people are truly evil and for the protection of others need to be incarcerated for long periods of time, maybe life. I just do not personally feel that Wayne Bent is one of those dangerous to society types of people.

  190. avatar
    Sam Redman January 17, 2009 at 7:57 am #

    Stephanie – If you put up a button, I’m “on it.” Not a problem.

    Donating to Bent’s cause does not mean that you are an accomplice or in agreement (it is very apparent that I am not from my writings — click the link on my name to look at my blog and look at the “legal” tab on the mirror site). It merely means that you are a champion of making sure that everyone is treated fairly in our legal system (which is often unfair).

    KM – I think they probably realized that going the public defender route was a mistake. I think that it became obvious in the course of the trial and afterwards that best defense had not been presented. Then, I think they came to the conclusion that they needed to have a vehicle to be able to pay for a professional appeal lawyer. One of their appeal arguments may center around mistakes made by their attorney and they needed a firm which had the experience in investigating attorney caused irregularities (getting public defender office to vigorously attack the efforts and competence of fellow public defenders might be an unrealistic request).

    Further, while there is a public defender mechanism for the appeal process, the assignment of a public defender appeals attorney is not routinely done (like it is for a lower court attorney); it requires an exhaustive procedure (which can be time consuming) of application through Sante Fe. Launching a proper appeal needed to be done expeditiously and vigorously without restriction as to the available avenues which might be pursued. The court appointed attorneys are so overloaded and may have other conflicts (such as loyalties) so that they simply cannot rise to all of those standards. So, I am of the opinion that the “right to an appeal” goes far beyond the ability to have a public appeals defender assigned to your case. I am convinced that it goes to the level of having the right to the very best legal representation possible, because if there have been any errors or irregularities or if the sentence (as I maintain) is disproportionate to the circumstances, you need the very best you can get (in anyone’s case… not just this one). If you have followed my writings (even if just in this thread) you will know that I have been consistent in suggesting that they hire the best appeals attorney they could.

    Further, we don’t know to what extent they are utilizing some of their existing funds for this appeal. We also don’t know whether they have made some arrangements to sell off a few more acres (some of their trust fund came from the selling off of at least 700 acres some time ago; they might just be selling a few more) in order to have funds for a sustained appeals fight. Plus, all of our theories about their financial situation are just that… theoretical speculation (although I do remain puzzled that the only registered non-profit vehicle I have found for them is their Lifesupports Inc, which claims less than $25,000 income, so they don’t have to disclose assets… Strong City’s non-profit status does need further research).

    However, considering everything, I am happy to help them out a little (without knowing their whole financial story). I enjoy having the capacity and the opportunity to assist in enabling another person’s full legal rights to be pursued. And I would hope that there would be others willing to do it for me if I were in that situation.. (that old “do unto others” bit).

    — Sam

  191. avatar
    raycot January 17, 2009 at 8:38 am #

    “All of us should fight for the rights for every convicted person to get their chance to appeal in both of those situations.”

    Sam Redman
    16 Jan 09 at 11:01 PM

    Every convicted person already has the rights for appeal. If they don’t have the resources to pay for that themselves then they can appeal with the assistance of the public defenders office. Wayne can do this too (if he truly is as destitute as he claims). We all already donate, in the form of taxes, to defend this right for everyone. Are we also to donate additional personal funds to enable every convicted person to hire a private specialized lawyer for their appeal? We would first have to believe that that person was in fact innocent of the crime and that an injustice was done. I believe neither of these things applies in Wayne’s case so I won’t be donating anything to help Wayne, or this group of people who were recently eagerly anticipating the destruction of all of us, or their evil god. Let them get off their lazy condescending butts and do it themselves.

  192. avatar
    raycot January 17, 2009 at 8:57 am #

    “Further, while there is a public defender mechanism for the appeal process, the assignment of a public defender appeals attorney is not routinely done (like it is for a lower court attorney); it requires an exhaustive procedure (which can be time consuming) of application through Sante Fe. Launching a proper appeal needed to be done expeditiously and vigorously without restriction as to the available avenues which might be pursued. The court appointed attorneys are so overloaded and may have other conflicts (such as loyalties) so that they simply cannot rise to all of those standards.”

    Well if we really desire to improve the justice system for EVERYONE, then isn’t THIS what we should be trying to fix? If you want to crusade for a specific individual case and solicit some of the limited funds of others, I think there are many more worthy ones out there to choose from…a case where a young man was sentenced to 21 years for simple possession comes to mind for example. Where do we sign up for that one? That’s much more appealing to me than helping a manipulative old man who routinely used people as his sex toys and got caught one day with his pants down.

  193. avatar
    Sam Redman January 17, 2009 at 8:58 am #

    Raycot – As I implied (and defined) in my previous posting, you get what you pay for. Some public defenders are good…. but, ofttimes not. Some are public defenders because they couldn’t make it in the “for hire” world (if you are ever in such a situation, get the best you can afford). Having the right to appeal and having the right to the most aggressive, most skilled appeal is quite a difference. You are so very naive if you think you can depend on a quality defense or an adequate appeal through the public defender’s office. It is a shame, but that it is that way. You can also get your meals at the soup kitchen and you can live in public housing, but I find that what they serve at the better restaurants is more nutritious and satisfying and I prefer the comfort of a home I purchased (my guess is that you do too). That’s why I support the various meal ticket charities (they go to restaurants)and “Habitats for Humanity” organization (building quality homes for the indigent).

    I support the right for everyone to have the best defense and appeal (and if that means by public contributions to a fund… so be it).

    — Sam

  194. avatar
    Sam Redman January 17, 2009 at 9:39 am #

    Jan – I was very impressed by what you wrote, especially how you summarized the crux of the matter.

    Jan wrote:

    I have no right to dictate whether their religion and beliefs are right or wrong. I just see a group of people that want their leader home. And I see a son who is spear heading that effort. No one has to contribute unless they want to. But it does not mean that those of us who feel inclined have not thought it through. For some of us, it is based on a feeling that this sentence was much too severe and that Wayne would have been better served, as would the State, by probation and confinement to his home.

    Like you, Jan, I think that for many of us, our personal concerns are based on our individual repugnance about the severity of the sentence and our desire to have a chance to ensure that our fellow man has every venue available to be granted merely what is fair (and appropriate).

    — Sam

  195. avatar
    raycot January 17, 2009 at 9:44 am #

    Sam,
    Wasn’t it you who laid out for us how Strong City had more than adequate resources at their disposal to launch this appeal for themselves? Have you changed your mind about that?

    Yes, there are problems with our system that need to be fixed and thanks for raising awareness about those problems…but to choose to champion an individual case out of many, why this one?

    Are you writing a book and need more material for the final chapter? Entertainment value? Some misplaced desire to prove your acceptance and open mindedness to the ideas of these people who frankly warrant no such consideration in my opinion? Are you trying to be an ambassador for the “World” to show these people we really aren’t so bad afterall, hoping it will encourage some of them to leave the cult? Got your sights on one of the “babes” in SC and trying to work your way into her good graces?

    Sorry for being so cynical and blunt, but you led the way 😉

  196. avatar
    raycot January 17, 2009 at 9:51 am #

    The loving and loyal son who is spearheading this effort was married to one of the women that Wayne had sex with. If that doesn’t define for you exactly who and what Wayne is, then nothing ever will.

  197. avatar
    KM January 17, 2009 at 9:58 am #

    Sam, I wonder if you have checked out the appeals attorney Jeff Bent has hired. I’ve done a little checking and what I’ve come up with isn’t that impressive.

    Maybe you can find more.

  198. avatar
    Sam Redman January 17, 2009 at 10:16 am #

    KM – Yeah, I did see some appeals failures in my research of their attorney’s efforts, but, sometimes the facts in a case are against you (it’s rarely a slam dunk). I do think he has the background and experience to do a good job.

    Raycot – Yes, I still do lead the way in my critique of Wayne Bent and his actions. Go read my blog (click the link on my name) and you will see that I continue to lay out my scepticism about their resources and my disgust about what went on there. Plus, I think their tax free status needs to be fully disclosed. I am not a fan and certainly not a follower.

    But, hopefully, I have differentiated my position, regarding my opinions about what Wayne did and my feelings about the need for fair and appropriate punishment. To make an adulteration of the famous Voltaire quote, let me put it this way, “While I will never support a person’s crime, I will defend to the death, his right to have a proper defense and, if convicted, to receive a sentence proportionate to the circumstances.”

    And yes, I am an ambassador somewhat… but really just of fairness (which is why sometimes, I am describing evidence which might tend to convict and other times I am campaigning for equitable treatment). I’ll admit, I am “open minded” to a fault.

  199. avatar
    Jan January 17, 2009 at 10:55 am #

    Raycot posted:
    The loving and loyal son who is spearheading this effort was married to one of the women that Wayne had sex with. If that doesn’t define for you exactly who and what Wayne is, then nothing ever will.

    Yes Raycot this is indeed what Wayne did. But what I am seeing and what is more meaningful to me is that Jeff his son, obviously must have forgiven his father. If that is the case, who am I to judge Wayne’s actions? I too am a big believer in “forgiveness!”

    This is truly about what is fair and just treatment under the law. I have spent the better part of the last 3 1/2 years battling another one’s fair and just treatment by the media, by on line posters and others connected to that case. My book link is referenced in my name. I just have always been an adamant supporter of the “rights of the accused,” and following that, “one’s rights to the best legal council, all the way through the process, including an appeal.”

    Sam’s Voltaire quote said it best! I 100% agree!

  200. avatar
    KM January 17, 2009 at 11:01 am #

    True, an appeal is just what it sounds like. The Court of Appeals goes over all the evidence presented for the appeal and then decides if anything was out of order. So, I guess we’ll see what the Court thinks. It can also go all the way to the NM Supreme Court and higher if they decide to hear it. It’s a very long process. I’m wondering if the attorney is going to try and get WB released during the appeal?

    Looks like the attorney is also a proponent of Medical Marijuana, which is back in the news this week in NM. I’m not against the use of marijuana for medical purposes as I have had several friends desperately ill who have greatly benefited from it’s use. The biggest problem is the Federal government who don’t care what the states say and can legally raid a doctor’s office in NM and haul them off to jail.

    I very much agree that their tax free status and where their money has come from needs to be disclosed. These people could seriously be living on the streets if they have turned all their assets over to SC and if there is no provision to provide for them in the event SC shuts down. Scary thought, eh?

  201. avatar
    raycot January 17, 2009 at 11:34 am #

    “Fairness” in our legal system would also be that Wayne Bent would not have been legally protected to get away with what he has for so long in the first place. It’s hard to have sympathy or see injustice in this when you consider the whole story. Have you not read the stories of all the hurt people, broken relationships, and ruined lives that this man has left in his wake? Has he ever shown even the slightest bit of remorse? Not a good example to hold up to advocate for positive change in our legal system IMO.

  202. avatar
    Betsy January 17, 2009 at 11:36 am #

    Sam,
    Ambassador to fairness? This requires a huge assumption don’t you think? You are claiming to judge fair over or better than twelve jurors and a judge complying with legal sentencing guidelines. That’s quite an ego trip!

  203. avatar
    Sam Redman January 17, 2009 at 12:38 pm #

    KM –

    Now I know why I liked that guy…

    Go read my blog post, titled, “Manhattan Catacombs,” about my own weed experiences (also appears on the New York Times online).

    http://samredman.wordpress.com/2009/01/09/the-manhattan-catacombs/

    I think you might find my strange comparison quite entertaining… how smokin’ a “doobie” could actually be very much a “religous” experience.

  204. avatar
    whisperwind January 17, 2009 at 2:59 pm #

    (that old “do unto others” bit).

    — Sam and all you other howling mobsters
    How about (that old “roll a stone and you can be sure it will roll back on you” bit). As has been pointed out here and ample other sites, and I might add by a jury of peers in this particular WB instance, very serious and criminal activities have taken place at the various religious communities of WB and LOR. Many that you evidently are not aware of, were committed by people (some are current members) other than WB. Everything that has happened is due to their own activities and some of them are getting a free pass so far. Every one of them (current members) had to consent to this episode, they all were contributors to the delinquincy of minors and accomplices in whatever degree of sexual misconduct that took place. They put the whole thing on the world wide web, which in itself and even by New Mexico standards (advocating sexual consumation of minors) is a crime. Until there is an acknowledgement of the crime there can be no leniency and no expectation by the beast(authorities) of any rehabilatation. The truth is they all need to undergo sexual abuse counseling and education just like everyone else who has been involved in a sexual abuse incident, and been forced to participate and also made to pay out of their own pocket whether they could afford it or not and no matter how far they lived from anyplace.
    Now some of you want to contribute to a noble cause, forget the con job, it is my understanding that these people have access to millions of dollars, ironicly from three of the principal young players family inheritance. Instead how about contacting the girls from New York on DR Phil’s show and see if there is any thing financially they could use to help get Esther out of there before she expires. That Wayne would let this go on, all to prove his lack of control, is absurd. Any of the upper echelon could stop it if they would. How about trying to help gain control of estates that are being squandered and manipulated by hucksters to the detriment of family members whose only offense is not wanting to be under the control of master manipulators. If you want to be beneficent, this whole thing is strewn with tradgedy, surely you can find a worthy cause other then support for the perpetrator, at least until he is willing to repent.
    Concerning Wendy and Jeff. Rest assured that their marriage was over before the consumation, you all can believe them on that.

  205. avatar
    Sam Redman January 17, 2009 at 4:14 pm #

    What’s their nonprofit status?

    What’s the situation on the non-profit situation for Wayne Bent’s Strong City compound (or their religion)?

    I found this (on the GuideStar.org and other similar nonprofit database sites):

    Non Profit Charitable Organization
    LIFESUPPORTS INC
    4087 LAKE HWY
    DES MOINES, NM 88418

    GENERAL INFORMATION

    This organization is a 501(c)(3) Public Charity.

    This organization is not required to file an annual return with the IRS because its income is less than $25,000.

    Contributions are deductible, as provided by law

    501(c)(3): (definition) Religious, Educational, Charitable, Scientific, Literary, Testing for Public Safety, to Foster National or International Amateur Sports Competition, or Prevention of Cruelty to Children or Animals

    Annual Return Required to Be Filed: Organizations Form 9901, 990-EZ8, or 990-PF

    Disclosure Requirements: Form 990, 990-EZ, or 990-PF Form 1023

    Contributions Allowable: Yes, generally

    Can anyone find anything else? Is this how they claim to be a non-profit? Where is the trust? Is it part of this or is that just a “blind” privately owned trust? Is there another non-profit entity? Are contributions for the appeal tax-deductible and is this where they go? I didn’t receive a receipt for the contribution I made (except from paypal, but it wasn’t really specific, other than the email address sent to). I hope that for their sake everything is in order with the IRS on their tax status. I would hate for them to be involved in yet another criminal indictment (some people on the internet can be rather snoopy). I know am certainly curious.

    It would be interesting if Mark Horner could interview their new Albuquerque attorney, John A McCall. Lots of questions come to mind.

    — Sam (aka “howling monster”)

  206. avatar
    Stephanie January 17, 2009 at 4:41 pm #

    You know, I don’t have a problem with someone seeking an appeal or getting a fair trial. And I too feel that WB’s sentence is too long for his crime.

    I’m sorry but I really do feel that by donating to WB’s cause, I would be accomplice to his beliefs and actions. I feel no need to provide WB with more money than he already has. I feel no need to be a participant in getting him back home. I’m a sucker for families too, but I’m more of a sucker for families who live with honor, and not a need to molest little girls, break the law, advertise it on the internet or on tv, then snub the court and act like an arrogant person instead of simply admitting wrong. WB will not admit he did anything wrong, because he will never ever believe he did.

    I feel slightly nauseated that anyone would want to help him get out of prison, just so he can get back home and continue his teachings about why it’s ok to lay with naked girls, etc.

    We haven’t even shined a light on the other people involved in this. WB wasn’t the only one who worked to groom these girls into taking off their clothes, many other women it appears such as Hanifa and Amaiah encouraged their own daughters to be molested and used.

    There are alot of crimes yet that haven’t been addressed in SC.

  207. avatar
    Stephanie January 17, 2009 at 4:53 pm #

    “A 67 year old man poses no threat to society as a whole”

    No, just to the people who live in SC. The mental abuse and mind control has gone on for so long, will there be any hope of these people healing? Esther is starving herself for this man.

    I don’t think it makes me a “hater” because I don’t feel a burning need to help WB. I have disgust for child molestors. I would be thrilled if an investigation were opened up on the women too. They have gotten away with abusing their daughters and subjecting them to sexual abuse.

  208. avatar
    Jan January 17, 2009 at 5:28 pm #

    Stephanie,

    I do not see you as a hater at all. I have no problem with anyone that does not want to help with Wayne’s appeal. People always need to follow their own conscience, that is what guides me. I am more involved in these cases, as a follower of the Justice System than the personal issues of the case. I also find this case so very different than any I have followed before and there are many different aspects of it all that are very sad and ongoing. I feel drawn in and all that have suffered have my full support.

    And I apologize for even using Wayne’s age in my post. Any aged person can be a concern. Using his age was more as an adjective, nothing more. I still feel because of his isolated circumstances he poses little threat to 99.9% of society. And “house arrest,” would have been adequate for his crimes. But that is just my personal opinion, one it will be interesting to follow as to whether it serves as grounds for appeal … his sentence not being proportionate to his crimes. Only time will tell about all that.

  209. avatar
    KM January 17, 2009 at 8:31 pm #

    Actually Jan, according to what he was charged with and what the jury subsequently found him guilty of, the sentence was within the legal limits of the sentencing guidelines.

    NEW MEXICO STATUTES AND COURT RULES
    31-18-15. Sentencing authority; noncapital felonies; basic sentences and fines;
    (5)  for a second degree felony for a sexual offense against a child, fifteen years imprisonment; 

    This next section gives the judge leeway in deciding the length, type of sentence, fines, etc.:

    31-18-15.1. Alteration of basic sentence; mitigating or aggravating circumstances; procedure.
    A.  The court shall hold a sentencing hearing to determine if mitigating or aggravating circumstances exist and take whatever evidence or statements it deems will aid it in reaching a decision.  The court may alter the basic sentence as prescribed in Section 31-18-15 NMSA 1978 upon “a finding by the judge of any mitigating or aggravating circumstances surrounding the offense or concerning the offender”. 

    For the one count of Criminal Sexual contact of a minor, the minimum is 3 years and the max is 15 years. Then there were the other two charges which I believe the judge said would run concurrently for 18 months each. Add that up and it’s 18 years. The judge then suspended 8 years (reason still unknown).

    While it does seem disproportionate when compared to the sentence the Coach received, both Judges had the ultimate decision on their particular case. I doubt that the judges were on the phone that morning saying “well, I’m going to sentence this way…blah, blah, blah”.

    It seems that Judge Baca found some circumstances existed that made for a longer sentence. Maybe the diatribes WB wrote damning the judge and everyone else, or the fasting or not showing up for court had something to do with it. Maybe his knowledge of SC and the massive amounts of essays and videos available on the internet caused him to feel like a harsher sentence was called for. And as the Judge he’s allowed to consider those types of things. Personally, if I were the judge and had put up with the shenanigans of WB for 6 months I might have felt inclined to throw the book at him. I doubt I would have taken 8 years off either!

    But, I’m not the judge (nor would I want to be) and I haven’t seen a transcript so it’s really only speculation. The facts we know are that the case was tried in front of a jury of his peers (not his followers – that’s not what “jury of your peers” means) and In the end the jury spoke, the judge sentenced and WB is incarcerated. Whether an appeal will be successful is an expensive dice roll.

    As far as Sarah Montoya, I think she did a good job representing an extremely difficult client. He wasn’t exactly the model, cooperative “I’m sorry, your Honor” type. She was successful in her motions to recuse 2 judges and in obtaining a change of venue. She was very diligent in filing everything possible to help her client even though he threw curve balls many times along the way.

    I found an interesting article from 2006 in Time magazine called
    “Why to Fear a Jury of Your Peers.
    It would make me think twice if I ever had the misfortune of being on trial!

  210. avatar
    Stephanie January 18, 2009 at 1:06 pm #

    ‘And “house arrest,” would have been adequate for his crimes.’

    I think he should have been ordered to mandatory psychiatric evaluation and therapy in conjunction with a 6 month jail sentence and 5 years probation.
    I’m not in favor of sending him to prison for 10 years, as a follower of the justice system myself, but then again I can look back and see what steps WB and his followers took, that landed him where he is now.

    As KM wrote, it did not bode well for them to put up rants on their blog, and call the DA names, etc.

    After all of this erratic behavior, their arrogance in the situation and unwillingness to admit wrong doing, what could any of them have expected out of this?

  211. avatar
    David January 19, 2009 at 7:53 am #

    For those of you who feel the sentencing was wrong, what sentence would you see as fair? Several seem to indicate that probation is the way to go. Why? Because his age is 67, does this make him less likely to offend again? Explain that one to me…

    What is a “just” sentence for any person convicted of two counts of delinquency and one count of sexual contact?

    I think he was wrong for what he did. I think he is entitled to an appeal. I hope the appeals court increases his sentence.

  212. avatar
    Jan January 19, 2009 at 10:53 am #

    Stephanie I agree completely with your post. When we were awaiting the sentence I posted how I felt Wayne definitely needed to be evaluated by psychiatrists. His actions and his writings would seem to be a cry out for help. I wish the State had seen it that way. Your sentence too 6 month jail sentence and 5 years probation would have seemed more appropriate. I do realize though as KM posted that the sentence Wayne did receive was well within the legal standards. Should be interesting to see what comes of the appeal, if in fact there is one, or the funds to mount one.

  213. avatar
    CryTears January 20, 2009 at 11:06 pm #

    Has anyone heard whether Esther is still fasting, or did God tell her to eat?
    If not, I don’t think she’d be with us any longer.
    You just can’t trust what is said coming from them so why bother asking!

    Whats the states CC&R’s, for lack of better wording!
    anyway…when someone dies, is it mandatory a coroner be called to investigate the death?
    If so do they remove the body, for autopsy to find the cause of death…
    OR can they do as in good old days…wrap’em, plant’em, pray’em, cover’em….amen’ em!?
    What are the laws for a death of young person not under doctors care?

    If she’s one of the virgins who poured out one of the plagues….doesn’t her death kind of mess up the plans now?
    Has the Sheriff gone out for a welfare check?
    Don’t get excited people! I mean check on her welfare!

  214. avatar
    Sam Redman January 21, 2009 at 10:17 am #

    Spreading the “good” news

    Just when I thought there was nothing more which might be interesting to discuss (at least right now) about the strange saga of Wayne Bent and his peculiar circumstances … I saw this “comment” posted on the strongcity.info site, an email from a non-follower, curious about the “religion” of the self-appointed messiah, “Michael Travesser.”

    From the strongcity site:

    Posted by Johnny Landell on January 19th at 1:17 PM:

    Dear Jeff,

    I recently stumbled across this website.
    I am rather curious and have a question I am hoping you can answer.

    If it is necessary for all of us to believe that Michael Travesser is the Messiah, why is there little/no publicity about your faith (such as evangelism)? I am from New York, and know that all the people I have asked have not heard and do not know anything about your faith. I understand the documentary was made and that information has appeared on the news after Michael Travesser was arrested, but those are all negative. Why is nothing being done to share the news of Michael Travesser?

    Please respond when you have time. Thanks and take care.

    -Johnny

    I’ll be interested to see how this is answered… because, it does raise a very interesting point, which has been largely overlooked in discussions I have seen and actually reveals (or calls attention to) a very comical part about these people sequestered self-righteously remotely in their secluded compound (not even lifting a finger to help anyone, but themselves).

    The reason they aren’t spreading the “good news” of Michael Travesser is because he has said that only those few loyal followers living out there on the “land” (and perhaps the two or three more out in the world, who are still sending in their “tithes”) have any hope of salvation. His philosophy is that after October 31, 2007… that was it, as far as redemption. Here you can see Bent’s zany graphic explaining the date that any hope for salvation was lost:

    http://www.strongcity2.info/images/header/prophecy1.gif

    The writings of Wayne Bent
    But, you can only read all about about his religion and how everyone is doomed now in an archived collection of his writings (the originals; he removed those from the web… not wanting the public to, any longer, have his “message” available to them). Ironically, we are the only ones left who are “spreading the news” from “Michael Travesser.” Check it out here:

    http://strongcity2.info (click on the “archives” tab). Also, click there on the “legal” tab, to get more of a picture about the real “news” he was trying to “spread” among the nubile young women of the camp.

    You can read in those archives how the world (well, according to Wayne Bent) is doomed to eternal destruction and (after October 2007) no matter what anyone did (or does) or believes there is no hope. So, the group out there is just sitting there smugly as the only ones going to make the trip (in fact, they might just be “translated” right out of there at any moment), but they don’t mind asking the rest of the sorry lot of the condemned masses for help in trying to get their leader (oh, sorry, they testified in court that he isn’t the leader) back into their pleasant world of material comfort.

    About what “Johnny” queried… “Why is nothing being done to share the news of Michael Travesser?” It’s because the “news” he is bringing is that it’s already over for everyone. Probably, because it would be impossible to build a movement around a message of hopelessness? Someone in another forum asked, “What kind of God would limit salvation to just 50 people?” Maybe the explanation may be that such would be characteristic of the “god” Bent worships… one who commanded his representative on earth, a wrinkly old codger in his late sixties, to convince innocent, virginal young women to have sex with him and then to become his exclusive concubines.

    Yeah… that “god.”

    — Sam

  215. avatar
    CryTears January 21, 2009 at 5:46 pm #

    Here’s the type of people who follow and agree with those of Strong City…this was posted on SC website.
    The only people I see who support them write things like this guy did.
    Was in response to WB claiming he’s perfect, doesn’t sin and only satisfy’s his “flesh or lay naked with the youths UNLESS at gods urging!
    Maybe is same god that urges this guy to do “stuff”.

    Wild Beggar
    4. December 27th at 1:32 AM
    I hope Michael is not disappointed, that no pervert will post here. Prudence Welch called me a pervert, but I know what a pervert is, I am not one of them. But to tell the truth, although I believe Michael, I could be considered a pervert in this quote;
    A perverted soul will smoke or drink alcohol. A perverted soul will sneak around the Internet looking at nasty pictures. A perverted soul will imagine all kinds of evil about me, because they are themselves evil. A perverted soul will hate his enemies or think evil thoughts. A perverted soul needs to satisfy his sexual urges. A perverted soul is impatient on occasion, resentful, or sometimes angry. So please tell me non-perverted, I would like to know how you live.

    I smoke several things, I visit porn websites sometimes, I imagine things about Prophecy that could happen, I love my enemies, because I love to kill them, I need to masturbate a lot, but I´m not impatient.
    (I wonder what he means by that, not impatient?)
    So only one of this description does not apply to me. Still I do not call myself a pervert, because I hurt no one. All things I do, that could be considered a sin, I do only to my body. Love is the thing the soul needs, in whatever form or shape it comes.

    I believe I have no sin. Because Michael said so. I believe Michael, so I have no sin. Occam’s Razor works for me. I have no sin, because all these things have a purpose in the Kingdom of Heaven.

    Holiness of Michael is visible to me. I see a Holy Man by the respect that is given by the Realm of Heaven, a humble one. Messianic promise has fulfilled my life. I can be happy having nothing, not even control over my body. No control over my life, so about all Christians can say of me that I am not Biblical. I love that.

    I also have love to Aboriginals.
    I have love to the Real Americans.
    Little love to Native Europeans also.
    Love to animals and love to Travesser Family.
    The Love of God is everthing.

  216. avatar
    Jan January 22, 2009 at 7:32 am #

    I am afraid that Johnny Landell will be waiting a very long time for a response, because as I have viewed this case these people from Strong City seem to follow the dictates of their leader and never answer direct questions that are asked of them. Johnny did have a valid point though and I would challenge Jeff or whoever is in charge now to post an explanation. And if the belief’s of Michael Travesser are so wonderful, why would they not be spread through the world for all to have that same opportunity to share and rejoice in?

    The way I view this, through all I have read of their supposed teachings is that this is a very select group of about 50 or so that will be moving on to Heaven at some point. The rest of us poor sinners, and that is I would imagine all the rest of the entire WORLD will not. If this is indeed their reasoning then I would imagine that is why their gospel is not heard outside of that approximate 350 acre stretch in New Mexico.

    What kind of religion is this? I cannot imagine that the God I have always been taught to believe in would ever allow such a happening. I honestly think there needs to be a response on that Strong City website about this. But alas I am not expecting a response because I have seen over and over them being asked direct questions and all they do is dodge and weave and avoid the tough answers.

    I have seen several very concerned people ask about the health of Esther as she would be in about the 22 day of her “fast,” now if in fact she is still either fasting or alive. I see so many people concerned for her welfare and the welfare of others but I see no response from these people. What kind of place is this that supposedly God has blessed only those 50 people with no concern for anyone else and no responsibility to even communicate with the outside world?

    Oh but when they ask for our help, then it is ok to communicate? Perhaps Jeff if you answered directly a few of your critics and responded to a few of these questions many of us have you might get a little more support for your father’s plight. Hey, just a suggestion, one you can ponder as I still continue to ponder how I am going to make it to Heaven since I am not living in the chosen blessed land called Strong City.

  217. avatar
    CryTears January 22, 2009 at 11:30 pm #

    Maybe should drop a coin in the machine to get an answer…no doubt will be a “pre’addressed” answer, or they’re waiting for mr bent to ATQ=answer the questions!
    Like old saying goes…MONEY TALKS!
    OK…how bout this…I’LL donate a whole bunch of money if they give us a detailed update by ESTHER herself!…and if she’s too critically weak, then I want to hear from her mother!…backed up with video docu of Esthers condition…fair is fair!

  218. avatar
    Search for truth January 23, 2009 at 7:11 am #

    Sadly it is now posted on the Strong City website by
    Esther’s mother, Hanifa Travesser that her daughter’s fast continues. She states the following:

    ———-
    I wanted you all to know that since December 30, 2008, twenty-four days ago, Esther has not taken any food in liquid or solid form, and she continues to waste away. Each passing day finds her weaker, and now, at times, with hardly the strength to stand.
    ———–

    She apparently has sent a letter to the District Attorney’s office letting them know her daughter’s condition and why it is basically their fault because of Wayne’s verdict and sentence.

    What a very sad state of affairs this is. I cannot imagine ever letting my daughter die for anyone, let alone Mr. Bent.

  219. avatar
    CryTears January 23, 2009 at 9:33 am #

    I guess she read what I wrote about donating a bunch of money for information…but I wrote, Backed up by video documentation!
    I wouldn’t trust their word one bit, they lie about everything. So their words mean NOTHING to all of us!

    GabLIER lied on the witness stand when asked if WB was their leader. He said NO…that they’re all leaders.

    But a few days earlier on a video they made, GabLIERs own words stated that WB was their leader and had been for years.
    A lie is a lie, whether small or large, its deceiving!
    And my bible states that Lying/deceiving is a sin!
    What this tells everyone= these people will lie about anything and everything. Their word cannot be trusted!
    This is PROOF that they are NOT of God.

    In a few years from now, Haffnia will wake up from this “spell” she is under…Yes, its a full blown spell from satan himself about everything done there in Strong City.
    When they wake up from this spell, they will lament and regret like non other, about their loved one dying for this “mans” cause.

    Mr WayBent will go on living and making his new life in prison and one by one the people of SC will wake up to the fact they’ve been deceived by satan/waybent.

    GabLIER will be first one to leave after he tries to overtake leadership at SC, but they will oust him for lying on the witness stand. They are NOT happy with him right now because his lying testimony was a major factor the jury was convinced they were all willing to lie for their leader! GabLIER did untold damage!

    This girl will loose her salvation because she allowed satan to delude her and then committed suicide by starvation. Not feeding your body IS suicide!

    You notice that Haffnia isn’t fasting unto death for mr WayBent! No! But she’s urging her daughter.

    What LOVING mother would allow their flesh and blood to die? For any cause? What good will her death bring?

    She should trade places and die in her daughters place if she truly believes in mr WayBent.
    Now THAT would be true love!
    If this continues, Esther will be dead by end of next week. Then things will really “blow up” there in SC.
    But it won’t get Mr WayBents “job” done and he will learn his manipulation game didn’t work. Next ploy!

  220. avatar
    Search for truth January 23, 2009 at 9:51 am #

    Cry tears or whomever you are I seriously doubt anything you posted could have had any effect on anything. I mean seriously no one can understand such drivel.

    I think by now we all get your point, you hate Wayne.

    Maybe enough is enough already?

  221. avatar
    Stephanie January 23, 2009 at 11:29 am #

    Hanifa, I will pray for your daughter. I will pray that she wakes up and begins to see the truth for what it is. If you have any ounce of honor in your body, and love for your child, take up your daughter’s burden and let her live. She’s young and has her whole life ahead of her. Please don’t let her kill herself. This will all be on your head.

  222. avatar
    Stephanie January 23, 2009 at 11:35 am #

    “She apparently has sent a letter to the District Attorney’s office letting them know her daughter’s condition and why it is basically their fault because of Wayne’s verdict and sentence”

    And Hanifa is finding out that they simply do not care. She’d rather her daughter die and become a “martyr”.

  223. avatar
    James January 23, 2009 at 12:40 pm #

    It must be a sin to cause harm to yourself, and to emotionally hurt the ones who love you. What does she expect to gain?

  224. avatar
    Mack January 23, 2009 at 12:43 pm #

    @Search for truth – I totally agree with you about the pathetic nonsense coming from crytears. I started to post here and I did a couple of times when it seemed like an intelligent conversation from other posters was going on. I even liked the humor posts. But, these rambling, insane, hate-filled attempts by crytears — which are done to just dominate this website and spread her vitriolic verbal diarrhea make it where I just don’t want to participate. Is there not a moderator? She can’t even stay on topic inside her own posts, just rambles all over the place but always filled with hate and lots of namecalling. If there is a moderator, clean it up and I know that lots of people will want to participate. My problem is that she turns the board into a hate board and I don’t want to be a part of that.

  225. avatar
    Beyond90Seconds January 23, 2009 at 1:17 pm #

    Mack,
    There is a moderator. And I’ll be the first to admit I’m not always very good at it.
    I won’t go into details, but attempts have been made to keep these comments sections free of hateful spew. I will share that CryTears has had some of her comments swiftly deleted by me. She is not the only “regular” here to have had a comment deleted by me.
    I’ll give this concern further consideration.
    Meanwhile, I’d like to say thanks to everyone here for their collective input, especially on this post. Overwhelmingly, your comments have been well thought-out and sincere. The vast majority of you have shown respect for others, and have ultimately produced what I feel is an excellent forum for a serious matter.

    Best,
    Mark

  226. avatar
    raycot January 23, 2009 at 4:21 pm #

    Search for truth

    23 Jan 09 at 9:51 AM

    …I seriously doubt anything you posted could have had any effect on anything…

    True…these people are living in their own private reality and there is nothing that we can say that can affect that…except maybe if we agreed with them, but if we agreed with them then we wouldn’t try to stop Esther from fasting either, so it’s sort of a catch 22. Heck, I’m even ready to donate something at this point if I thought it would make a difference.

    Even if Esther doesn’t care about her own life she would be wise to consider the further consequences for those who remain there if she was to die from this fast. I’m counting on it that she does care enough about them (at least) to keep that in mind…as long as she still has one anyway.

  227. avatar
    EMC January 23, 2009 at 5:46 pm #

    Mack –

    I’m troubled by your post on a number of levels.

    First, it is true that CryTears has her own style of writing and is very passionate about Strong City and their “Messiah.” I’ve seen no evidence, however, that her purpose is to “dominate this website.” She has strong thoughts about this case, and shares them.

    You, on the other hand, have chosen to focus not on the case or even this blog posting, but on another poster and on the moderation of this site. Personally, it seems to me a greater concern if posters attack each other than if one poster uses a language or perspective with which I disagree.

    Mark moderates lightly. I suspect in part that’s because his career as a journalist leads him to abhor censorship, and in part because he has sincerely made every effort to allow diverse points of view. I appreciate his generousity in hosting this site, and have found him more than responsive to any e-mails I have sent. (I’d point out that his contact information is conspicuously displayed at the top of the page.)

    *shrugs* If you disagree with the content of another’s post, rebut it. If you dislike the person/style of another’s post, ignore it. If you think a post is inappropriate, report it. Surely on a site with so many stories and so many hits, you can find a means of participating without spreading your own “vitriolic verbal diarrhea” that infects us all.

  228. avatar
    KM January 23, 2009 at 5:56 pm #

    As I was in the midst of writing a comment this morning an older friend of mine was found deceased by his housekeeper. He had been very ill and apparently died sometime in the early morning. He was a dear man who loved life and I will miss his smiling face.

    He had no family, no worldly possessions to speak of – just a small studio apartment filled with things we collected at the flea market. But he had friends, lots of them. Our friendship and his love for my children will forever remain in my heart. I have been in tears all day as I called my kids to let them know of his passing.

    Like I said he was very ill, confined to a wheelchair and on continuous oxygen but he didn’t care. He was happy the way he was and never thought of not wanting to live because of his many problems.

    Sadly, at this moment I can’t help but compare my friend with Ester and what she is doing to herself. Unlike my friend she is choosing death rather than facing life head on.

    I believe and so did my friend in “Life from conception to natural death”. Rest in peace Paul!

  229. avatar
    KM January 23, 2009 at 6:04 pm #

    Two things to point out:

    From Hanifa – “I wanted you all to know that since December 30, 2008, twenty-four days ago, Esther has not taken any food in liquid or solid form, and she continues to waste away”.

    Sounds like she is still taking water, maybe with nutrients added, just not FOOD. With limited activity you can live for quite a while, even a few months, without food. Water is different. Assuming you’re in pretty good shape and if it’s not too hot and you aren’t doing anything but sitting around, a human can probably live for about 3 to 5 days without any water. Not very long and an unpleasant way to die.

    From Elisha – “It is true that the body of Wayne Bent is now temporarily in prison, but the Spirit of Michael resides in the heart of each true Christian. Michael is still here at Strong City, leading our every movement”.

    I thought he wasn’t their LEADER? And isn’t it amazing that there are less than 100 true Christians in our entire world?

    Whatever! Ester is throwing a deadly, childish temper tantrum. If they truly believe that WB has to bear this “suffering” for their salvation, they should be rejoicing, not mourning and killing themselves.

  230. avatar
    Jan January 23, 2009 at 6:07 pm #

    What a beautiful post KM, and a tribute to your friend. It is impossible to understand what Esther is doing to herself. What is even harder for me to understand is what her mother is letting her do. What in God’s name is wrong with Hanifa for allowing this to happen? How can a mother in all good conscience see her daughter, her own flesh and blood waste away and see this as a good thing. And all for the love of Michael, or whomever he is now. If something happens to that dear sweet young woman, I do hope that the authorities are called in. I just find this so very troubling.

    Life is such a precious thing and we should all embrace it and be thankful for it every day.

  231. avatar
    KM January 23, 2009 at 7:23 pm #

    Thanks Jan! Even though I’ve been sorting through things in his apartment it still hasn’t quite sunk in that he’s gone.

    I’m with you on Hanifa, I can’t even imagine watching one of my kids do something like this and not trying to stop it.

    When I found out about Paul this morning I was in the process of reading the Adult Protective Services website. I was thinking that someone should call them about Esther. What I found out is that they can’t really do much without some type of court order.

    (Sorry, this is a little long but I wanted to share the info I found).

    From the Adult Protective Services (New Mexico) website:

    ● In New Mexico, the fundamental right of self-determination is the biggest limiting factor of APS’ authority. The APS Act authorizes only the least possible restrictions on the exercise of personal and civil rights and religious beliefs.

    ● Adults who appear to have decision-making capacity can refuse to cooperate with an APS investigation and that decision must be honored.

    ● Additionally, the APS Act specifies that no medical care or treatment be authorized or required in contravention to the expressed or implied wishes of incapacitated adults.

    ● Even when abuse, neglect, or exploitation is substantiated and service needs to remediate this maltreatment are identified, victims have the choice (and often exercise the choice) to not accept assistance, even to their own detriment.

    ● The rights of all New Mexicans to self determination are legally a higher priority than protection.

    So basically, Esther can do whatever she wants, including kill herself. Even if the others at SC are exploiting what she is doing in an effort to force the state to release WB, APS won’t step in. And I seriously doubt that WB will be released from prison with this tactic. He might be released while he is appealing but then again he might not. SC doesn’t get to make that determination.

    What’s interesting to me is that because my friend died alone, 20 law enforcement officers, the fire department and the Office of the Medical Investigator showed up at his apartment. After 2 hours and them scouring his house, taking pictures and getting statements from the housekeeper and myself, his body was finally released to the funeral home.

    It’s fallen on me to obtain the death certificate so I looked up how to do that, Here’s what I found:
    “If, after viewing the body, notifying the law enforcement agency with jurisdiction and making an investigation, the state or district medical investigator is satisfied that the death was not caused by criminal act or omission and that there are no suspicious circumstances about the death, he shall execute a death certificate in the form required by law”.

    I think if someone died at SC right now, there would more than 2 hours of investigating. Especially if was a young person.

    Life is so precious and this has been a sad day for me. I pray the people at SC wake up before it’s too late to save the precious life of Esther.

  232. avatar
    Johnny Miller January 23, 2009 at 8:03 pm #

    This trial aftermath has been personally sad for me to experience, as I know the people at Strong City very well. I would have never imagined that the current events going down would have ever happened, not in a thousand years. Wayne has always taught us cause and effect, and I am so perplexed that nobody there at Strong City is not willing to accept that Wayne has created this entire situation. He knew this could happen… He told us it would happen and sure enough it did happen just like he said it would. And this business about doing all these things for the purpose of making the entire planet angry and upset with him is simply nutty and haphazard. People who go around drawing lines in the sand will always will run into someone who will push back harder. I have found that human behaviour is pretty much predictable, and this is something that Wayne Bent knows very well, and has taught us. This is all part of a well thought out plan… so they think and believe… I just don’t think they have thought out the effects of their causes very well. They are in complete denial or how life works, and how the universe runs, God will do what He is supposed to do whenever people take their own lives into their own hands. They are just simply flying by the seat of their pants, and unwilling to accept lives eventual results. I really feel this in my bones. So the question is just where does Strong City really thing this is going to lead them to now? I have known Esther since she was a little girl, and have seen her grow up. She really does not know what she is doing, and what her mother is allowing is simply unimaginable, and I believe if Esther follows her convictions of starving herself to death for Wayne Bent’s release, which isn’t going to happen, she may be pounding more nails into Wayne Bents coffin, for there are people out there who may attempt to blame Wayne for her demise. It can all blow up in their faces and bring more shame and trouble to Strong City. They are so afraid of their being found out to have been wrong, and this discovery will have to be the event which has got to bring them back to the real world. But it will have it’s cost, and it is something that my friends at Strong City is used to paying. It’s not the first time that they have had to give their all for a cause, and one thing I do know about the LOR is that they always eventually do what is required in the end. I hope they will do what is right. There is so much at stake here.

  233. avatar
    Stephanie January 23, 2009 at 9:24 pm #

    KM, I’m so sorry for your loss.

  234. avatar
    Beyond90Seconds January 23, 2009 at 9:28 pm #

    KM,

    I also am sorry for your loss.

    Sincerely,
    Mark

  235. avatar
    KM January 23, 2009 at 9:42 pm #

    Thank you both! Paul was a sweetheart and even with all his disabilities he had such a joy of life.
    A friend of his passed away 2 weeks ago. I’m sure they’re out there somewhere playing dominos and having a grand time free from the earthly illnesses that plagued them.
    Thanks again.

  236. avatar
    Johnny Miller January 25, 2009 at 3:01 pm #

    It appears that this story of Strong City and Wayne Bent’s Lord Our Righteousness Church will be with us for a spell, if not a long while. The people in Strong City appear to be doing everything they can to keep this on the front burner, not that people will soon start to get bored of the story and move on to something else. I pray for that day, for people to resume their normal daily affairs and live their lives. This day will come, but until then we need to continue to look at these events and learn and accept the findings. Eventually the new National Geographic Documentary will be released, and we will have to deal with it’s effects on this blog and other outlets which have been following the story. Part one told the story mainly from the Strong City Camp, even though they say it was tainted and did not tell their story as they wished it to be told. Part one was a publicity diaster for Strong City in many ways, and part two which is now being prepared, will deal with the trial of Wayne Bent, and the aftermath feelings of those who left the Cult, and tried to go on with their lives. As for me, hopefully this will be the end of the matter, but I sense this will not be the case. The people at Strong City now have an agenda, to get their beloved leader out of prison and returned home to them. In my opinion I too believe that Wayne’s prison term is a bit much. I expected perhaps three years or so, and when I heard 10 years plus 8 years probation, I said “ouch”. Yet at the same time the God of Heaven also has a purpose in these precedings and everything came out as according to His will and He allowed what happened to happen. Truly God is big enough to oversee and control His own affairs, so I believe this lengthy prison term was according to His wishes, and He knows how this will play out for the better good of everyone, including Himself and the whole universe. Wayne is in good hands, and he knows it. Strong City is in shock and thrown way off balance, and now they have to come to grips with their world minus Wayne Bent, and to be satisfied with hand written letters and expensive long trips to visit him on occasion. Again Wayne is reaping what he has sown, and his lifes apparent upheavel is of his own doing. Nobody twisted his arms and made him do anything which landed him in the slammer… and I know he had plenty of council asking him to not do what he did, but he plowed on through anyway. I just pray nobody else will be hurt or die as a result of their actions there at Strong City. Again they there have the ability to turn around and to do what is right. I pray that there is a champion there who will stand up there in the midst of Strong City, and say “No, stop this foolishness, and lets return to sane thinking and wait on God, and see what He will do.” If Esther dies and others follow suit, this will be tragic for many souls, and even cause more heartache for Wayne Bent himself. This is not what we invisioned from the start.

  237. avatar
    Betsy January 26, 2009 at 10:29 am #

    Johnny, I can understand when you say this is not what you envisioned, but is it not what Wayne envisioned? I am quite perplexed on this issue that if this is what he prophesied, and is in line with God’s plan, from where in these souls in Strong City do the protests arise? It seems to me that protests from the human mind come when faith of the heart has failed. Even so, if they feel to reach out in protest, should not their protest be with God, who obviously crafted this plan and called for Wayne to be offensive, an offender? Why do they bow to the beast in protest and plea at this time? To be honest, it has surprised me. It seems to me if they were truly convicted in this ideology, and certain in their belief that Michael has come into them, naturally their is no separation from Wayne being in jail, as they are not in jail and they are ONE! This is Wayne’s own teaching as I understand it. Am I wrong? If their hearts were sure, they would be coming together quietly in prayer and gratitude that God is fulfilling his plan, not reaching outward for Wayne’s salvation. Do you have any insight into this Johnny?

  238. avatar
    KM January 26, 2009 at 4:56 pm #

    I’ll give you 3 chances to guess who’s fasting again and the first 2 don’t count!

  239. avatar
    Beyond90Seconds January 26, 2009 at 5:09 pm #

    Jeremy gave me the heads-up a short while ago. He just did a brief story about it for KOB. JJ says kob.com will have the story up shortly.

  240. avatar
    Jan January 26, 2009 at 5:11 pm #

    KM, I would say it would be Wayne himself. That would be my guess.

  241. avatar
    Johnny Miller January 26, 2009 at 5:17 pm #

    Actually I have nothing to offer. Everything keeps changing about as often as Wayne changes his socks. And like a chicken running around with it’s head chopped off, is this group I was a member of for 18 years, and now it looks like Wayne is fasting again. Can’t they come up with anything else a bit more original besides fasting? I am starting to tire of hearing about it.

  242. avatar
    KM January 26, 2009 at 5:39 pm #

    Jan wins!

    Johnny, someone on Prudence’s comment site suggested they try holding their breath. My kids used to do that when they were throwing a temper tantrum. I’d blow in their face and it would startle them out of whatever was going on in their little heads.

    This is very tiring! He’s also claiming “…torture I have experienced while in prison. I speak of real torture, and not just some discomfort”. Shame that! And he still refuses to accept any credit or blame for the reason he’s in prison. It’s everyone else and their dog but not him. Ugh!

    Mark, I knew you would be on top of this, Twitter is such a neat invention!

    I agree with Betsy – “If their hearts were sure, they would be coming together quietly in prayer and gratitude that God is fulfilling his plan, not reaching outward for Wayne’s salvation”.

  243. avatar
    Sam Redman January 26, 2009 at 6:23 pm #

    Wayne Bent: “It’s been a month, why can’t I go see my girlfriend?”

    Look at the strongcity.info site for the update and the letter from Wayne Bent (yawn… he’s doing another protest fast). I actually applaud him for his actions… it shows that he is trying to get something done about Esther. But, my guess is that his request will be ignored as just simply an unreasonable request (it probably smells to authorities like it might be a ruse, cooked up prior to his departure). Surely it will make a media splash. It’s better than the usual “what’s on your kitchen floor could kill you… details at ten.”

    He mentions torture. I’m sure he is right on that. Prisons are the cesspool of our culture and evil prison guards abound. Talk to any ex-con and they will tell you that there is a lot vile nastiness going on in prisons (such as guards blasting prisoners with high pressure hoses, who are merely avoiding the showers because of dangers from fellow prisoners, dragging people out their bunks in the wee hours of the morning for a cell check, using tasers, electric cattle prods and dogs (and blows to the stomach or solar plexus). All these and especially chemical sprays are used routinely (the spray is a primary tool everywhere) to manage inmates who are deemed unruly. These devices and techniques are all seen as necessary elements to manage inmates. They are used in most states, employed to subdue inmates for any balking at an order from a guard. These infractions go ignored by outside authorities, because they stop short of doing any real damage (and are seen by many as needed to keep prisoners in line).

    So, my guess is that Bent is right about how he has been treated (it’s a real shock for first timers). Prison reform is grossly needed everywhere. Part of the problem that wardens and guards face is that if they don’t break a prisoner’s spirit, they will end up with real discipline problems in a hurry (there are a lot of bad guys incarcerated and everyone gets treated like bad guy who gives guards any flack at all). My guess is that Wayne has probably resisted their commands. After all, he has been God himself (to his followers) for 6 years and before that he was always the absolute ruler of his own little world. The guards probably just responded to him the way they do with all trouble makers.

    But, his protest fast? I would be surprised if he is allowed a visit home to see one of his girlfriends (that’s the dream of every prisoner). They don’t let them out for dying parents, much less to go see one of his multiple sex partners. If that technique would work, every prisoner and his girlfriend would try it.

    — Sam

  244. avatar
    KM January 26, 2009 at 7:00 pm #

    Sam, granted many prisons have problems with abuse by inmates and guards. But, WB is in the medical unit, I don’t think the kinds of things you mentioned happen in that unit. Not saying there isn’t any abuse in a medical unit, just not quite as extreme as you mentioned. And again, he’s not in the Ritz Carlton or even a Motel 6. He’s in prison!

    His continued refusal to accept ANY responsibility for what got him in trouble in the first place is stupid. I can’t find any other word for it, just stupid. He posted that he knew it would be offensive and he knew it would get him in trouble but his ego is so big that he wanted TV cameras on HIS land to show the world how great he is. Stupid!

    If the Sheriffs didn’t call for medics, either Esther refused help or they don’t think she’s in bad enough condition to worry. She’s being stupid too and her parents and others are exploiting her to try and gain their leader’s release. That’s wrong!

    And you’re right. Prisoners don’t get released writing to the warden about poor little me and poor little Esther. Sob stories very seldom work. Neither does constant grandstanding for the media. After awhile it becomes just another tiresome story and any sympathy that might have been present is gone. He wants to go back to the land where he lives? Sorry WB, until a successful appeal, you don’t live there anymore!

    Serve your time Bent! Be a man or god or whatever you are today. If a beautiful woman wants to kill herself over you I guess she can, it’s happened before. But I sure would hate to have to explain to the Real God what you’ve been up to on your sojourn on earth.

  245. avatar
    Lorraine January 27, 2009 at 4:24 am #

    I am extremely sad and deeply troubled about the state of my sister Aquinnah O’Keefe (Ester)and yesterday requested the welfare check of her by the sheriffs department;I also contacted the DA’s office. She is very weak and gave them a statement stating she refuses all medical and civil intervention and refuses any resuscitation should she become unresponsive. This statement was signed by seven cult members as witnesses to her desire and “religious right” to conduct this fast without any medical or civil intervention.I am at a quandry, trying to get a grip on the standing by and allowing Aquinnah to die because she has a religious “right” to do so. If she were standing with a gun to her head(which she is…) would we allow her to do so because she has a religious right???? She has been so indoctrinated in this since she was a small child she lacks the capacity to truely make a sound decision. Her mother Hanifa is responsible for this and some day SHE will stand accountable. The legal system IS NOT the villian here. Wayne Bent reaped what he sowed. This group only accepts this truth when it pertains to the “world” yet they feel they are exempt from this principle. “Cause and effect” was preached over and over ,yet somehow Wayne is exempt from this principle also. “There is no such thing as a victim,” do they remember this???? Why now is Wayne a victim???? When do you accept that this IS God’s will that Wayne is in prison???? The Lord works in mysterious ways…. I don’t remember Jesus making an appeal to Caesar or complaining he was “tortured” as Wayne recently stated in his last letter. Wayne’s followers are incapable of seeing these truths. Wayne has done GREAT damage to many lives and those who feel sympathetic know only a fraction of what has transpired throughout these many years. I hope my sister Aquinnah O’Keefe will not die over this and that we can intervene. I will continue to work toward this. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. Aquinnah is my fathers fifth daughter, the age of my own children. I nursed Aquinnah as a baby, strange as that may seem to some,I feel she is like my child in this way.To think she is wasting away on the verge of death is unacceptable. Please help me, I live in New York state, I am not very popular out there and need some feedback, what do I do???? Any legal advice that is sound??? I will make more calls today.

  246. avatar
    Lorraine January 27, 2009 at 4:27 am #

    P.S Mine and Aquinnah’s father died in 2000. He was NEVER part of this and tried VERY hard to get them out of there. He would never have tolerated this.

  247. avatar
    Stephanie January 27, 2009 at 5:19 am #

    “I actually applaud him for his actions… it shows that he is trying to get something done about Esther.”

    He’s not doing anything but perpetuating this, and I fear Esther will not be the only one fasting there soon.

    What those at SC don’t understand is, they will force nutrients on WB to keep him alive. They won’t let him starve to death in prison because he is now property of the prison system and the state. They will strap him down and put an IV in him without any problem, as his personal wishes won’t be honored in there.

    Lorraine I’m very sorry this is happening to you and your family.

  248. avatar
    KM January 27, 2009 at 9:13 am #

    Lorraine, You need a NM attorney who will try to get you guardianship of your sister. Sounds like she has signed a living will and/or Do Not Resuscitate order and unfortunately it will be honored unless someone gets legal guardianship over her. If you have that they will not honor whatever she signed and will take her out of there.

    Please call the State Bar of New Mexico at (505) 797-6053. Ask for Kasey Daniel. She is the Director of Public and Legal Services. She is somewhat aware of what is happening but probably doesn’t know about this new turn of events. Unfortunately you probably won’t be able to get a Lawyer for free but hopefully she’ll be able to direct you to someone who will help for a smaller fee or on a contingency bases.
    If she can’t help you, ask who can. You can also ask for Kate Mulqueen at (505) 797-6064. She works with the Equal Access to Justice program in NM. She is also aware of what’s happening. Please tell them that this is an emergency, that it can’t wait a day and ask them to recommend someone in Clayton or Raton who will get you temporary legal guardianship until Esther is out of danger. Then it might require something more to retain guardianship if she is not capable of making her own decisions. You might find someone who will file paperwork without you flying out here but you will need to be here if it gets signed to take charge of your sister. Make sure the lawyer knows that you are her sister, your mother is in too deep and you want to stop this fast until you can get Esther a psychological evaluation. Tell them what you wrote in the above post.
    If you need more assistance, please ask Mark Horner for my email and I will try to give you more numbers. The people I mentioned above know all the attorneys in the state and hopefully they will help you find one.
    I’m praying for you and your sister.

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