Wayne Bent fasting in prison again

New: A message from Jeff Bent (Beyond90Seconds.com, September 17, 2009)

Update: Bent may be forced to eat (Albuquerque Journal North, September 7, 2009).

“At the very least, the warden told him if this religious fast progresses into the extent of a hunger strike, force-feeding could be on the table,” Bland said. (Albuquerque Journal North)

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(September 1, 2009) Convicted sex offender Wayne Bent says he’s fed-up with (allegorically speaking) being sexually abused by the State of New Mexico.  In an August 31 post headlined My Crown of Thorns on the Strong City website,  Bent writes that he has been fasting for two days and will continue to go without the state’s food and water.

Bent’s latest writing begins with a salutation to his distant flock:

Dear little family at Strong City,

Today [August 19, 2009], I heard the message that my appeal for bond was denied [Read the brief filed with the NM Court of Appeals .

In setting-out to explain his rationale for his latest fast, Bent sets the table by sharing that he was twice the victim of sexual molestation during childhood.  Those stories are followed by this excerpt:

Now, in my old age, I have been molested again by a dirty old man. He is the State of New Mexico. This present molestation of me has affected me a hundredfold more than when I was barely eleven. I have been used as a sex object for the State of New Mexico and Dragonfly Productions in the UK, as well as the National Geographic Channel, in their fantasy movie of me. This little boy is greatly abused again, many times over.

In an allegorical picture, I see myself as the little eleven-year-old; a dirty old man kidnaps me and takes me to his prison house at Los Lunas. He now molests me there for these nine months, and makes me his sex object.

Bent and many of his followers have fasted numerous times since his 2008 arrest.  Last December, a Taos jury found Bent guilty of one count of second-degree sexual contact of a child and two counts of contributing to the delinquency of a minor.

So, how long will this fast last? Some paragraphs near the end of Bent’s latest offering appear to provide some insight:

I must now refuse to take any sustenance from the State. I will eat none of their food, or drink none of their water. I will cut off this hypocrisy. I refuse to be the State’s “head on a pole.” I do not belong to the State, and no, I am not its property. I have a heart, soul, and mind that belong only to God. This will never change. I will eat only that food and drink that are brought to me by my family, as in the last two imprisonments, and for the same reasons. My family believes in me, and none of them lie and say I molested girls. Their food comes with love. I will no longer receive food from this false owner.

So what will happen if the prison refuses to let my family provide for me? I will die of starvation in this dirty old man’s house, who has molested me for nine months; and, I may die of dehydration, unless God Himself sends the delivering Angel to me. It will be up to the State whether I live or die, but I must be true to myself. It is up to my Father what my resolution will be. It is written of this moment, “Blessed are those believers who die in the Lord from now on.” Revelation 14:13. “Be faithful unto death, and you will receive a crown.” Revelation 2:10.

Whether Bent dies of starvation remains to be seen.  In the immediate future, it wouldn’t be surprising to learn that one or more of his supporters will join him in his fast.

Indeed, the first person to comment beneath Bent’s Crown of Thorns is his devoted Esther.

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94 Responses to Wayne Bent fasting in prison again

  1. avatar
    wdawn55 September 1, 2009 at 9:43 am #

    I just read Wayne Bent’s latest post regarding his “crown of thorns”. I noted this sentence in particular, “When Christ is crucified, few stand with Him.” The pull of that thought on his church family can only be understood by those who have been there. Yes, his followers have always been free to physically leave Strong City, but as the story of Jaycee Dugard demonstrates so cogently, they are bound psychologically and some may never break free.

    It was also interesting to hear the report by Alex Hannaford in which he states that the remaining faithful followers of David Koresh are still awaiting his resurrection from the dead. In all likelihood, some of Wayne’s followers will do likewise if Wayne should die from his fast.

    When you consider the power of deception, oh how critical it is that we order our lives by the living Word of God. “Cursed [be] the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm…” Jeremiah 17:5

  2. avatar
    Beyond90Seconds September 1, 2009 at 10:01 am #

    A well thought-out comment, wdawn55. Thank you for sharing your observations here.

  3. avatar
    jlbworld September 2, 2009 at 5:21 am #

    Hopefully no one will begin fasting with Wayne as it seems he makes it clear in his statement that he does this one alone.

    I know your hearts are with me and you like to be with me where I am, but I’d like to do this alone. Please permit me to do this. The reason is that I do not want the State to come after you all and arrest you as they did Esther. I want the issue at hand to stay simple and clean. We all have experienced firsthand how the media likes to change the subject. The State likes to pretend the issues are other than what they are. Let us not allow them to change the subject. I know very well what the true issue is, and I will not be moved from it.

    We can only hope that his people do in fact listen to what his wishes are this time.

  4. avatar
    Beyond90Seconds September 2, 2009 at 10:17 am #

    Point noted. Let’s see how it unfolds…

  5. avatar
    jlbworld September 3, 2009 at 9:40 am #

    Update from Strong City, September 3, 2009

    Jeff Bent:

    Today, I spoke by phone to the deputy warden who informed me that Michael was put in “segregation” at the prison hospital. I asked if that was the same as “lock down” and he confirmed that it was. He would give no information concerning Michael’s fast or his condition at the present time, stating it was “personal information” that he could not share.

    Since Michael has been put in solitary confinement and cut off from contacting his family, we may assume at this time that he has entered his full fast, as he said he would in his letter.

    Sounds like things are progressing rather rapidly and the prison officials have this well under control, as they should.

    Jan

  6. avatar
    Sam Redman September 3, 2009 at 10:40 am #

    I posted about this on my blog (of course, giving credit to Beyond90seconds, where I first got the info). You can click the link on my name to read it. I don’t take comments on my blog, but, there’s a link back to Beyond90seconds on my blog’s side panel so you can come right back here, if you feel inclined to respond.

  7. avatar
    jasmine September 4, 2009 at 7:38 am #

    I liked Sam how you so accurately stated, things had been going swimmingly for Wayne in prison. For what he did and how offended many people were by his actions I would say the prison had been very decent giving him a whole host of privileges.

    The man foolishly laid out on their website his plan. Is he kidding himself that the prison would then not know and be quick to put a halt to this before it got out of hand?

    So now as you pointed out he will be treated as a hard case and I would imagine he will not like that. Of course that will make the nasty State of New Mexico even more of an enemy, won’t it?

    I wonder how long before the new vision from the Lord will be instructing Wayne to perhaps have a change of heart regarding the nasty prison food. How can he really be so stupid? If he wanted to fast why announce it, just not eat?

    Great blog post by the way, and the other writings there as well.

  8. avatar
    Esther September 4, 2009 at 6:26 pm #

    I wouldn’t normally lower myself to address so much sewage and the pit that it is coming from but over the past few days I have felt such a pain rising up in my heart that I have to speak.

    Over the months many of you have blundered along, sometimes throwing mud, other times throwing what you intended to be real spears. Lately I have wondered when it was that you forgot that real people were on the other end of the darts you throw? When was it that you lost your sense of another man’s honor and dignity? When did you lose sight of the burdens that all of us bear on this end of your mockery and hateful jesting? When did you lose your heart, or did you ever have one?

    None of you have any clue what you are talking about. You do not know the man who you hold in such low esteem. You have never lived with him. You have never talked with him. You do not know the heart that we know. You do not know the eyes that we have looked into for the past 9 years. You have absolutely no clue.

    My heart aches with what we face each day. The one soul who has become more precious to us than anything; the one soul who we have watched with our own eyes give everything that he has for us; who has loved when he was not loved in return, given asking nothing back, died when it looked like it was for nothing, now be beaten and crushed by mobs of angry men. I wonder when those men will wake up?

    When? How long? Have you no heart at all? You abuse someone who you have no right to even look upon. This man is very precious and very innocent. I ask that you remember that next time you set your fingers on your keyboard to type another word about a man so precious to our hearts, a man so precious to the heart of God. A man so far from the vileness of your own hearts that you now place upon him.

  9. avatar
    Beyond90Seconds September 4, 2009 at 6:44 pm #

    Hello Esther,

    Thank you for sharing your thoughts here.

    I will share that I have no doubt that the pain that you feel is real.

    Sincerely,
    Mark

  10. avatar
    Esther September 4, 2009 at 7:58 pm #

    You absolutely miss my point, Mr. Horner.

    Goodnight.

  11. avatar
    Beyond90Seconds September 4, 2009 at 8:05 pm #

    Hello Esther,

    I did not aim to address your points. Only to share that I have no doubt that your pain is real.

    Goodnight.

  12. avatar
    James September 5, 2009 at 5:26 am #

    Esther has thrown more darts that anyone on this site. She is very insulting, condescending, and arrogant. She thinks that only her cult is right and everyone else is wrong. That is just like any other cult. Why cant she see the pattern

  13. avatar
    Jan September 5, 2009 at 5:39 am #

    There is quite an interesting update by Jeff today at the Strong City site. He was able to visit with Michael yesterday.

  14. avatar
    Jan September 5, 2009 at 5:59 am #

    Esther,

    I actually do understand how difficult it is to stand by and watch someone you care about deeply to be accused and attacked by the media, the press and message board posters. You sometimes feel the whole world is against you and who you care so deeply about.

    Almost all of these people do not even begin to understand that these are real people involved and it is not just a story and the vicious way they come at you is hard to even begin to comprehend.

    It is very challenging to be on what might say the “opposite side of a case or a media event.” All one can do is just stand tough in one’s beliefs and not listen or care what the masses say and do. If in your heart this is how you feel then you really only can answer and be concerned with your own conscience and your own life.

  15. avatar
    Gabriel September 6, 2009 at 9:27 am #

    Well, Mr Redman, I took you up on your offer to respond. After reading your most recent post about Wayne Bent, and being myself intimately knowledgeable of the situation and conditions at Strong City, I feel I must congratulate you on the article. It likely contains the largest concentration of not only logical and fanciful errors per sentence of anything on the web, it also likely contains one of the greatest repositories of outright venal dishonesty (not to mention banality) that I’ve read in my 65 years.

    I have known Wayne Bent for over thirty-years; been quite involved in our community all during that time, and you list things on your site I’ve never heard of. Is it your purpose to unashamedly publish lies, or are you simply an unpublished closet fiction writer seeking a forum in which to practice your prevarications?

    Sam, my response here is in no way intended as an attempt to change your mind about anything, or even to sway or alter your opinions; but simply to the end that perhaps someone reading this will take with them the idea that this man is clearly at least very questionable in not only the accuracy of his information, but his honesty and personal integrity as well.

    One cannot help but wonder at the hypocrisy of a man who would write things like “Free Wayne Bent,” contribute a few cents to his legal fund, and then turn and post the puddle swill found on your site. Perhaps you could clarify these matters, Sam, but I’m not at all sure that your credibility is redeemable at this point. With such a focus on purely, baseless imagination, how can you expect anyone to take seriously anything you write — ever?

  16. avatar
    Beth September 6, 2009 at 9:37 am #

    Mr. Redman,

    Like Esther, talking with people who generate and then believe lies about our church, Wayne Bent or anyone else, is not my thing. But I saw you had commented here, and because I had thought you saw some of the issues with some clarity from previous communications, I went to your blog and read your piece about Mr. Bent’s “new fast.” I was surprised at the amount of blatant untruth in it. In the first paragraph alone, I counted nine things you stated as facts that are totally, 100% untrue. And yet you wrote this slimy report about Mr. Bent’s activities, just as if it were true and you knew all about it, when it is not and you don’t. Then others read it, assume they now know what happened, too, and join in the mocking. People love to believe some preacher did slimy sex acts in the name of God. Somehow, in a way that is beneath their level of awareness or honesty, it justifies the corruption that is in their own heart. It helps to keep the conscience numb, while giving them something to talk about. What a sad way to live.

    You obviously read Mr. Bent’s letter on our website, telling about his fast and the reasons for it. How could you possibly make this statement:

    “…he announced that he was going on a fast because he didn’t like the prison food.”

    I don’t see how you could possibly have missed his point, and his reason for fasting.

    I read your little post on your blog last night, last thing before going to bed. At some point in the night I awoke with the very clear realization that you are not interested in the truth. It came to me as a fundamental reality, and it was like, “Oh, I get it.” My natural tendency would be to want to go down through your post and list all the lies and set everyone straight so they could see the light. But I realize people WANT to believe what they do; they have their reasons for it, and what the actual truth is is seldom in the equation. I don’t have a heart anymore to try and point out errors and lies, when that is what people love and want. All I can say now is, go ahead and believe what you want; it’s OK.

  17. avatar
    Former member of LOR September 6, 2009 at 8:32 pm #

    You know folks, the testimonies of the former members will and do have some creedance and should not be ignored. We were there, and some of us know just as much as the current members of the LOR. You do not pull the wool over our eyes. I personally remember everything. I am shocked to read these current comments of Beth (Kathy Bowman)and Gabriel (Dale Brown). You both, as much as the others who were there in the beginning, have forgotten the original dogmas and vision of the LOR, along with the teachings of Ellen White. What happened to your original faith and love for biblical truth? Wayne was warned to not do these things, but no one would utter a comment out of fear of being lost. Jeff tried, twice, but he backed down when no one would stand with him. I remember these days very well. I was there. And now, you, I and all humanity get to witness these current events being played out, and am I surprised? No. Wayne is a victim of his own teaching, “You reap what you sow…. maybe even 100 fold…” This is soooo fair. Perhaps a remnant of the LOR will see and live before it is too late.

  18. avatar
    Beggar September 6, 2009 at 10:05 pm #

    Be careful to your weapons of Mass Destruction, journalists. And to Boeing Pilots trained in Afghan caves.

  19. avatar
    Scott September 7, 2009 at 4:50 am #

    All or Nothing

    It is interesting how people view posts from others that do not share their point of view 100%. That is how Beth and Gabriel must be reading the Sam Redman blog, as not 100% to their liking. Sure there are some opinions on his blog that I can see them objecting to because it would seem, if you read all the postings that he has been very honest in his thoughts on Wayne’s writings and skeptical about some of his Biblical teachings. Since one can glean from reading there that Mr. Redman has proven to have an excellent understanding himself of the Bible it appears to me that he has been quite accurate where he has questioned how Wayne tries to incorporate the Bible into the hows and whys of his actions and prophecies.

    But let’s be fair here Mr. Redman has also strongly criticized whether Wayne would even be found guilty and if I remember he did not exactly believe he should be found guilty. I am positive though he has mentioned several times that he felt the sentence was too harsh and he also posted somewhere about support of an appeal. I have even seen Redman taken to task by others on boards where they felt Sam was way to protective of the rights of Wayne Bent. (imagine that?)

    I don’t know but what I read in this last post was just one commenting about how the Prison System has to treat everyone somewhat the same. And it seemed that except for this “brought in food idea,” Wayne was being treated quite well there. I understand Beth and Gabriel you care about this man and believe he is special but what kind of situation would it be across the land if suddenly a preponderance of prisoners were demanding special diets, brought in by loved ones, and if they did not get them they were all going to refuse to eat? That would be chaos.

    One thing that has irritated me about the followers of Wayne Bent is they all seem to feel entitled to special treatment. And they all seem to nitpick every poster even some that have posted at least half the time more or less in support of them and also Wayne Bent. I find this “all or nothing,” attitude quite ineffective in today’s world where compromise is the key to everything.

  20. avatar
    Scott September 7, 2009 at 4:53 am #

    All or Nothing

    It is interesting how people view posts from others that do not share their point of view 100%. That is how Beth and Gabriel must be reading the Sam Redman blog, as not 100% to their liking. Sure there are some opinions on his blog that I can see them objecting to because it would seem, if you read all the postings that he has been very honest in his thoughts on Wayne’s writings and skeptical about some of his Biblical teachings. Since one can glean from reading there that Mr. Redman has proven to have an excellent understanding himself of the Bible it appears to me that he has been quite accurate where he has questioned how Wayne tries to incorporate the Bible into the hows and whys of his actions and prophecies.

    But let’s be fair here Mr. Redman has also strongly criticized whether Wayne would even be found guilty and if I remember he did not exactly believe he should be found guilty. I am positive though he has mentioned several times that he felt the sentence was too harsh and he also posted somewhere about support of an appeal. I have even seen Redman taken to task by others on boards where they felt Sam was way to protective of the rights of Wayne Bent. (imagine that?)

    I don’t know but what I read in this last post was just one commenting about how the Prison System has to treat everyone somewhat the same. And it seemed that except for this “brought in food idea,” Wayne was being treated quite well there. I understand Beth and Gabriel you care about this man and believe he is special but what kind of situation would it be across the land if suddenly a preponderance of prisoners were demanding special diets, brought in by loved ones, and if they did not get them they were all going to refuse to eat? That would be chaos.

    One thing that has irritated me about the followers of Wayne Bent is they all seem to feel entitled to special treatment. And they all seem to nitpick every poster even some that have posted at least half the time more or less in support of them and also Wayne Bent. I find this “all or nothing,” attitude quite ineffective in today’s world where compromise is the key to everything.

  21. avatar
    Milton September 7, 2009 at 7:00 am #

    “For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.” Acts 28:27

    “Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.” Revelation 1:7

  22. avatar
    KM September 7, 2009 at 4:49 pm #

    Jeff Bent said he believes his father is sincere THIS time. “I just don’t know what the outcome will be,” he said. “If the state sticks him with (feeding) tubes, I imagine he’ll live.”

    Is anyone keeping count of the many times he’s promised to fast until death?

    Many people in this world fast as part of a religious journey. Most don’t share it with the news media for attention. It’s supposed to be a private thing to help you grow closer to God.

    In fact, it’s practiced by Roman and Orthodox Catholics during Lent and for many Catholics fasting is a part of their lives year round.

    The picture of Jesus fasting that Jeff posted on their website is called “Christ in the Desert” by Ivan Kramskoy, 1872. He probably began life as an Eastern Orthodox or Russian Catholic since he began at the age of 15 as an apprentice to an icon-painter. To be fair though I haven’t found any references to his religious life.

    Finally, we should remember Christ’s words from

    Matthew 6:16-18

    16 Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

    17 But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face;

    18 That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly.

    WB makes a mockery of fasting with his carnival sideshow atmosphere.

  23. avatar
    Beth September 7, 2009 at 6:44 pm #

    Dear Scott,
    I was not addressing Mr. Redman’s opinions or point of view. He is as entitled to them as anyone, and it is 100% fine with me if we don’t agree. What I was referring to was not him sharing opinions or points of view about things that actually happened, but to him reporting things as if they are what actually happened, that are not true, not accurate, and did NOT actually happen.

    You also said we all seem to feel entitled to special treatment. I know it has looked that way to some, without a deeper look or understanding into the principles involved. But what we believe and live by is that ALL men are entitled to the same — to treatment that is fair and honest. If Wayne were imprisoned justly, for a crime he actually committed, it would be right for him to eat their food and drink their water. It would be an act of agreement, and honesty. But they have imprisoned him unjustly, and based on a lie. To eat their food implies agreement, assent, and communion with them in the lie that put him there, which they are standing by. After giving the powers involved ample time and opportunity to acknowledge the clearly provable truth, Mr. Bent conscientiously feels he must withdraw his agreement with them. To continue any longer to “play along” would make him a liar. And if he is anything, Wayne Bent is an honest man. Only an honest man would be willing to die for the truth. These principles, and how he has been led over the months to make this decision, was made very clear in his letter.

    Sincerely,
    Beth

  24. avatar
    James September 8, 2009 at 4:22 am #

    Wayne is wanting to die because he cant have his freedom and he cant control his surroundings. If he truly believed in his own innocence, he would want to be sharp and strong so he could fight, no matter how long it takes.
    There are victims involved whose lives have been scarred forever, they deserve justice. Also, anyone who encourages someone to “fast” to death, is sick.

  25. avatar
    david mead September 8, 2009 at 9:29 pm #

    Jeff wants us to know that fasting is not suicide. And of course in this, he is correct. People have always fasted for other reasons, better ones. Not for suicide. But Jeff, those who “fast” unto death, is this not suicide? Those who announce the reason for their fast as death (or better food), if they persist until they die at it, is this not suicide? True fasting would not cause a person’s death.
    You could argue that fasting, like drinking water is a healthful practice that no one should worry about (prison officials). But those who announce that they are going to drown themselves if they don’t get what they want, they are not just drinking water, now are they.

    That fasting is not suicide, this kind of wise sounding saying, where have we heard it before? Oh, yes, right. The seven plus women were not violated because they came naked. The girls were not molested because they wanted it, asked for it. It was not fornication because they were instructed by God to do it. And now, fasting is not suicide. But this begs the question, Whatever one does in such a way that it kills him, how is this not suicide? Fasting would not kill anyone now would it.

    You say, well David, he has already done this many times and it never killed him before. This means it must not have been sucide.

    This is true, he is not dead–you noticed that too. And right you are. But only because he stopped it just before in when that far. If he is doing what Jeff says he is now, total fast, if he doesn’t stop it again before death, if no one stops him, he will die. This is what he is doing and where he is headed if Jeff is correct, having talked about it with his dad for some time now, as he describes it. And this is not fasting. If what he says his dad is doing now is true, it is suicide. And Jeff is deceived to think it something else. Which he does. Jeff is deceived.

    Jeff assures us, “I know what he is doing”, (fasting, not suicide). But we see that he doesn’t.

  26. avatar
    James September 9, 2009 at 5:42 am #

    Jeff Bent may end up burying his father. The fantasy world that they live in will continue to fade away, and he will have to deal with having lived a lie.
    It is really sad to watch someone harm themself in such a way.

  27. avatar
    Jan September 9, 2009 at 5:52 am #

    This just might be the sad very pitiful ending of the Wayne Bent Saga. I wonder if his people are really prepared and ready for this. It is one thing to declare that they are, but when you truly lose a loved one it all of a sudden becomes very real in a way that you cannot feel or understand prior. Even Jeff, he says he and his dad have talked about all of this and he knows what to expect. But then I read Jeff’s words and I am not so sure. In one breath the the other day he said his dad was being treated well and then in the next breath he spoke of his isolation and that was not right. Now he is saying fasting is not suicide. Normally with a sane and rational person fasting is not suicide. It is a spiritual experience from what I have read to be closer to God. But those spiritual people that fast are usually doing it privately and without all the fanfare. Wayne Bent is doing this for a purpose that as I read it is not at all spiritual. He no longer wants to eat the food of those who unfairly imprisoned him. Once again this all seems to go back to “Poor Me.” Wayne and his people think they are the only ones to be wrongly accused and convicted of a crime. I would register that many prisoners believe they are innocent and have been treated by their States unjustly. What happened to that Appeal that people were donating for? What happened to waiting to see if in fact he might actually get a second chance? Certainly this attempt to coerce the State will only poison the minds and hearts of the Courts even more, as I feel certain they are reading about this. Wayne was just too impatient to even wait and see. Does that speak that maybe he does not believe that he actually is as innocent here as he wants us all to believe?

    These recent acts to me speak more to what I have long believed to be the heart of what is going on here with Mr. Bent. His mind has gone. He is severely mentally ill. None of what he says anymore makes much sense. He is incapable of making sense because his judgment to do so is severely impaired. I doubt this is recent, as it is probably something that has been apart of him for a very long time. All those visions and his prophecies probably came from his confused mind. The only part of his mind that seems to be still functioning is the manipulative portion as he still works his people into believing his actions are spiritual and justified. So Jeff sits faithfully by and tries to explain it all to the little band of believers who are still waiting and watching for some miraculous event to come from this latest “Fast.” And of course none of them see it as suicide because their Michael would never do that. But if the State lets him go without food and just monitors his other actions, in a week or so Wayne Bent will be gone and yes Jeff and all his followers, that will be a form of suicide.I wonder for some if it might actually be somewhat of a relief?

  28. avatar
    david mead September 9, 2009 at 7:56 am #

    “Now, they are trying to silence and break him. They will fail.”

    Here, Jeff speaks of the prison officials and their efforts at preserving the life of the “Messiah” who is in their care. Jeff says messiah is fasting (read intending to starve himself to death). Is Jeff concerned that his dad might die? Not if he thinks this is just another fast.

    “I know what he is doing. He and I have talked a lot about this over the past year or so, and especially the past few weeks. I know his resolve. He is on a total fast now. He will not bow down to the beast, making peace with a corrupt system that enslaves people. He does not want any of their favors.”
    This doesn’t sound so serious. If a fast is healthy, it seems in the mind of Jeff, then a total fast should be totally healthy.

    “I know his resolve.” If he knows his resolve, it would seem he should be concerned, for his life, not for his comfort, ability to communicate with the world, or quality of the vegitarian food he is served three times a day. If the state will not be able to “break him” as Jeff says it won’t, then messiah would die. This should be cause for concern for Jeff, but it isn’t. How to make sense of this.

    There is another reason that would give Jeff cause, not to be concerned-—the state–confidence that the state will not let messaih carry out his threat. That way, if the state does its job, life is preserved and also, face can be “saved”, Wayne’s. His “resolve” (stubborn ness) held firm, it was intended to be unto death but the evil state stepped in and preseved messiah’s life. And when he starts eating again (so as to avoid the discomfort of the tubes and straps that would not allow him to move to damage himself), it will be tauted that he was not broken.

    I suspect that Jeff is not the only one with this kind of confidence in the state. Wayne is depending ont it as well. In the past, for all the preannounced fasts unto death, Wayne has been the one to find a reason to stop them. Now, for this, with the use of a quick calculation, he has the state to do it for him. I would guess he roughly has about as much confidence in them for that as oh say…we do.

    If so, if we (and Wayne) are correct in our little calculation and the state does its job, no matter his resolve, he isn’t going to die. Thus far, according to what Jeff has written about it now, Jeff is not concerned about the possibility of his death. This is because to this point, Jeff has thought it through—it ain’t gonna happen and he feels free to talk about his dad’s considerable resolve.

  29. avatar
    Jan September 9, 2009 at 8:09 am #

    Dave, I am sure you are correct that the State won’t let him die this way … But one never knows, perhaps they might decide that this man is a royal pain in the “you know what,” and might just let him get his way.

    I don’t know if this has ever happened before, that a person in prison refused to eat and was left to be allowed to die? One thing though, this refusal to eat, by Wayne, I wonder how many times a person’s body can take this and not be impaired and weakened. He might be hastening the inevitable anyways.

    I don’t think though what Jeff reports though is always what Jeff thinks or believes. He is rather disingenuous.

  30. avatar
    KM September 9, 2009 at 10:10 am #

    Fasting from food is not really a problem unless you have an underlying medical conditions (diabetes, heart disease, etc.) Many people intermittently fast throughout the year with no problems. All of us fast when we sleep (usually at night) which is where Break – Fast comes from.

    The real problem is hydration. The one reason Esther wasn’t in worse shape than she was is that she was taking water with what sounded like electrolytes in it. Although she was weakened, by taking water you can still function fairly normally.

    When you cut off fluid intake though, you have about 3 days until your organs start shutting down. Some of the early symptoms are that you become chilled easily, faint, suffer from muscle cramps and nausea. If the fluid loss is not taken care of (via IV) you’ll start to be confused, you might have muscle spasms, chest and abdominal pain, seizures and eventually unconsciousness.
    These are not all the possible symptoms and age, health condition and your weight (which in WB’s case is thin to start with) all play a role in how quickly the process moves along.

    The prison system will NOT let him get to that point no matter what a pain in the rear he is. They WILL deal with him to the point of IV’s, feeding tubes and even sedation if he is extremely uncooperative. And WB will hate everything they are doing, calling it torture (as he is prone to pronounce everything that is done to him that he dislikes) and if and/or when they return some of his privileges, I’m sure we’ll hear all about it.

    But, I believe he has been hoisted by his own petard! Like someone pointed out, Sam maybe, he had a good thing going on for an inmate. I doubt that after the trouble he’s giving the prison that he’ll get those same privileges back. He’ll have to earn them and since he is stubborn like a mule, that won’t happen for a long time.

    Jeff seems like a pawn in this game and maybe it’s of his own choosing, but sometimes I get the feeling he wishes all these problems would just go away so he could get on with his life.

  31. avatar
    Sam Redman September 9, 2009 at 10:26 am #

    I noticed on the StrongCity Website where Jeff Bent (the dutiful son) is all in an uproar because the state is trying to protect the life of his Dad. Jeff is outraged that the prison officials had the audacity to put Wayne on a “24 hour suicide watch.”

    Jeff is just so puzzled why they would do that when all his Dad said was that he was not going to eat or drink any water until he died. In other words, Wayne says he plans to kill himself by fasting to his death. Jeff says, “That’s that’s not suicide, that’s religious fasting.” But, Jeff, if you kill yourself (whether with a gun or a knife or by not taking sustenance), that’s suicide. You might could call it “suicide by religious fasting,” if you wished a more palatable terminology… but anyway you wish to label it, if the “religious fast” continues the way Wayne has promised, then he will be dead by his own hand (that’s suicide).

    Jeff can’t understand that there is a social system in this country which actually cares about human life (even those who are in prison). I guess once you have been indoctrinated so much that everything outside of their tiny, tiny world is evil, you can’t understand that we live in a civilized country where human life is still regarded as sacred, even for someone on a self-stated mission of self-destruction.

  32. avatar
    James September 9, 2009 at 12:04 pm #

    I’m not gonna commit suicide with this gun, but I am going to put it in my mouth, and I’m going to pull the trigger, but I’m not going to commit suicide! God will deliver me, or I might die, but I will not commit suicide!!!!!!!!!!!How dare they put me on suicide watch!

  33. avatar
    Hanifa September 9, 2009 at 12:33 pm #

    “…we live in a civilized country where human life is still regarded as sacred…”

    You can’t be serious, Mr. Redman.

    You can’t possibly believe amidst the incontrovertible evidence of off-the-charts abortions, continually mounting war deaths, torture, abuse and brutal treatment of “prisoners” and many other examples of injustices all perpetrated and sanctioned by the US government that “…we live in a civilized country where human life is still regarded as sacred…” Surely you jest in purporting that there is a measure of sacred concern for human life on a national level.

    The New Mexico (In)Justice system could not care a flying fig for Wayne Bent’s life EXCEPT for the impact it potentially has on the number of individuals involved in his incarceration, from the greatest to the least. For self-interested purposes, and not because anyone is so sacredly concerned for his life, is Wayne threatened with aggressive, invasive and uncivilized treatment if he will not bow to their wishes. If there was a genuine and sacred concern for Wayne’s life, he would be heard and justice would be served promptly. He will not preserve his life if it means that that life must be sustained at the cost of agreeing to a lie.

    Political prisoners are often given a modicum of acknowledgment by those who do not understand their position but when the Son of God is in need of support, those who have the same aforementioned self-interest stand by the sidelines, lashing him with tongue whips spiked with innuendo, imagination and ignorance, thinking they do God service.

  34. avatar
    KM September 9, 2009 at 4:11 pm #

    Dear Hanifa, I believe you have lived far too long in the safety of Strong City.

    Granted, there are horrible people in our world who have no regard for human life or human dignity. But, you are not getting a “real life” view of our world. There are many more people in this world who love and care for the people created by God than there are evil people out to harm us. You can’t really know this world when you are living sheltered in the far NE corner of NM connected to the world only through the Internet, because GOOD things go unreported by the mainstream media.

    I don’t think you realize that many of us who post here really care about you and your extended family. You have it in your mind that we are all out to get you but you believe this because it’s been pounded into you for years by one man whose sole purpose has been to control you and your families for his own gain. He got what he wanted and now he’s paying the price for his happy years of worship by you and your church. I believe your church calls this “Cause and Effect”.

    You and I are very close in age and during the time you were giving up everything for this man (and he is just a man, not messiah) I have been blessed with a wonderful husband, 5 beautiful children, my Grandparents and Parents and so many loving friends I can’t count them all. I have traveled this world and met both rich and poor people who love God and choose to share that love with strangers as well as family.

    I have been blessed to care for dying people, young and old and to comfort and console their families. I have brought smiles to the faces of little children who have been so abused by their families that we didn’t know if they would ever smile again.

    I have fed the hungry and given clothing and shelter to the homeless. I’ve visited the imprisoned, most of whom are sincerely sorry for whatever they did to be incarcerated.

    And I am only one person. I’m not patting myself on the back, just pointing out that there are hundreds of thousands of people who like me do good things everyday and ask for nothing in return.

    God ask only two things from me. First that I believe in Him and only Him. Secondly, that I love my neighbors as I love myself. This is what I have tried to do and is the reason I sincerely care about you and pray for you, your children and all the others at Strong City.

    I even pray for Wayne Bent’s soul because as David wrote in Psalm 62:11-12;

    11 God has spoken once, twice have I heard this: that power belongs to God.
    12 Also to You, O Lord, belong mercy and loving-kindness, for You render to every man according to his work.

    John 3:16;
    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son (Jesus Christ), that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    God bless you and all the others at Strong City.

  35. avatar
    Jan September 9, 2009 at 5:03 pm #

    Yes Sam, the very idea that prison officials would actually want to keep one of their prisoners alive is surprising to Jeff? Sometimes Jeff just floors me by the words he expects us to believe in those posts. I find it even harder to understand when I remember that Jeff used to actually work for law enforcement and he must have some idea in these various situations (like Esther too) what will eventually happen. Does he really think that anyone but a few followers will not see Wayne’s actions for an attempt at attention and perhaps publicity or more than likely manipulation? There is just no way we can accept all this as a genuine Communion with God acting in the way others might in a religious fast. None of that is what this is about. It is all another “poor misunderstood innocent Wayne.”

    So just like your very articulate blog post, I applaud everything you said today too.

    And Hanifa, again I very much respect your love for this man. But you are wrong about society. Yes there will always be wars, and abortions and killings and horrible acts done by malicious and evil people. But unlike you who live in your sheltered world I am out in society and I see many very wonderful people all the time doing good things and loving their fellow man. It is sad that you all have become so jaded in your beliefs that you just cannot see what Sam sees and KM sees and others. And most of us don’t dislike you or your followers we just do not enjoy seeing you all being taken in and manipulated time and time again by the love you feel for this one man. It is wonderful to love him but to let him control your life, your thoughts and the way you exist in this world is truly tragic.

    By the way truly awesome posts by KM and Sam today. They both said much of what I too have been thinking since I read Jeff’s words this morning. I cannot wait to read what will be surprising ole Jeff tomorrow morning, or maybe it is as KM suggested:

    Jeff seems like a pawn in this game and maybe it’s of his own choosing, but sometimes I get the feeling he wishes all these problems would just go away so he could get on with his life.

    And I wonder that too.

  36. avatar
    Hanifa September 9, 2009 at 5:46 pm #

    And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

    Luke 16:15

  37. avatar
    James September 10, 2009 at 3:41 am #

    Hanifa, why do quote verses in the bible to make your point, but completely ignore all of the verses that show Wayne to be false? Fasting is prayer, but hunger strikes are an attempt to change a circumstance.
    The pride and unreasoning stubbornness of your cult only makes you look like fools. Wayne has mental problems, and instead of anyone telling the king he has no clothes, you guys just thought it would be “God’s will” to just imagine clothes on him!

  38. avatar
    Milton September 10, 2009 at 6:13 am #

    There is so much discussion on this site about Michael Travesser committing suicide that it should be addressed. Before I address it I would like to make it plain that I do not believe that Michael Travesser is committing suicide. I have known him for many many years in various capacities and have never known him to digress from strict integrity in any particular. That is why I can state that when he says it is not suicide, that I know it is not, no matter how it may look to some.

    But for sake of argument lets look at it from the standpoint of suicide. What transpires in a person’s life to the point that they would take their own life? If a person really were compassionate wouldn’t they want to know WHY he would want to do that? Isn’t it because a person is backed into a corner with no escape? Or aren’t they are put in a situation where there is no possibility of any release from a situation that is worse than death? A person who wants to commit suicide would rather die that keep on doing what they are doing. I do not see one person on this site asking why would a person do that, from a compassionate standpoint. Instead I see a couple of finger pointers who pretend compassion, but in reality are tongue lashers.

    Sam Redman says that we should be glad that we live in a country where people do care about a person’s life even if they are in prison. He sounds like he is compassionate, but if one were to examine closely this aspect they can see that there is no compassion at all. The justice system has no compassion. And all those who pretend to wring their hands saying that Michael might commit suicide have no compassion either. Those who had real compassion would start to examine WHAT would drive him there. They would recognize that if he is in a situation where it is more preferable to die than continue on with the present existence that it be torture to force him to keep on? Especially considering that he is allowed no reprieve from a situation where there is no solution.

    From a suicide standpoint he prison wants to torture him. Those on the outside looking on want to torture him. Those who tongue lash him want him tortured.

    The “victims” both stated that it was a religious experience with no sexual contact. They both stated they came of their own free will. They both stated that he did not touch any sexual area and yet he is condemned to 18 years for it!! The sternum is commonly seen on women on the streets everyday. I have see women with shirts so low cut that one can see nearly to their belly buttons. Yet one man who touches it in a healing situation is sent to prison for 18 years? On the other hand a man who had repeated sexual penetrations with a minor got released on work release on the same day as his sentencing. It is so hypocritical that it is beyond belief. Where is the relief? Where is the justice? Where is the compassion? I do not see any at all. What do I see?

    I see a howling mob who would rather torture a man to death than honestly look at the situation for what it really is. I see a justice system built on a political agenda for personal gain. I see a country where religious freedom has disappeared unless it is state approved. I see a people who pretend nice words but are actually tongue lashing him and those who love him with their words. I see that Michael Travesser is a man who has personal integrity in the face of all this, but is hated beyond description for standing for what is right and true.

    Michael, I stand with you and will defend to my own death your position and right to do with your mind and body as God directs you. We are supposed to live in a country where ones personal beliefs are protected and defended by a constitution. But that is gone.

    Jeff said Godspeed Daddy. I say the same. Well done thou good and faithful servant of God. God sees all the gross hypocrisy in this. How do I know that He sees hypocrisy? I know He sees it, because I see it.

  39. avatar
    Milton September 10, 2009 at 6:25 am #

    Sam, you said, “…we live in a civilized country where human life is still regarded as sacred…”

    I challenge you to go to Iraq and tell that to the families and friends of the millions of children that have starved to death from the sanctions of the first Gulf war. I challenge you to say that to the people of Panama, Columbia, Serbia, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Cambodia and a host of other countries that have received your brand of civilization. I challenge you to say that to the victims of Waco and Ruby Ridge.

    If you go to these people and say that face to face, and survive, come back and tell us their responses.

    I doubt that you would survive more than a few moments in Iraq.

  40. avatar
    James September 10, 2009 at 7:47 am #

    Milton, If you saw a mentally ill person hitting himself in the face with a brick, and he told you that God had told him to do it, what would you do? Do you have any compassion for someone so sick that they would do that? You would prabably give them a bigger brick, and stand by and try to justify his actions in some spiritual way that for some reason only you can understand and explain to everyone.

  41. avatar
    ron September 10, 2009 at 8:07 am #

    Wayne has never been tortured. Ask a Vietnam POW about torture.
    Are you seriously justifing suicide, if you feel you are backed into a corner? Wow, you are a sick guy.

  42. avatar
    david mead September 10, 2009 at 9:11 am #

    LOR, FROM THE INSIDE

    Since some of the LOR people write as if they can’t understand why we the world is not as “compassionate” toward the object of their affections as they, I just thought to address that question. Explain it for them. And then those of us who have never been a member of LOR can look into the LOR mind.

    I was a LORite. Simply said, what was required of us is quite typical of what they are posting about their god, the object of their affections. The following quotation, recently posted is an example of it. NO deviation from this example is tolerated.

    “Before I address it I would like to make it plain that I do not believe that Michael Travesser is committing suicide. I have known him for many many years in various capacities and have never known him to digress from strict integrity in any particular. That is why I can state that when he says it is not suicide, that I know it is not, no matter how it may look to some.”

    On the other hand, were this person to say to a fellow in confidence, something like, “Perhaps the Bible is correct, Wayne should not be taking his son’s wife to bed whenever he wants”, or “perhaps if he kills himself with his fast, perhaps it was suicide” the reaction would be swift. He would be visited and dealt with immediately. Such a thought would not be tolerated.

    Each member knows this and does not allow himself such a question. He has seen what happened to his former close friends who did–Wayne’s cruelty to them. Suddenly, over night, everybody knows they are dead, or demon possessed, or something worse and they are packing, soon to be on the highway, hitchhiking.

    Only absolute allegiance as to an infallible god is tolerated.

    In my day, our man had not yet become god, nor had he begun molesting children and women members. No matter what he does now, if he says he is only fasting (until he gets some better food), if he says it isn’t suicide, even though the members know that without water and food, he would not last long, even though he dies, they say it isn’t suicide.

    If he says it isn’t fornication, like in the example above, it isn’t fornication. Why not? Because he said so. Nothing more is needed.

    They take his spin on it and say the evil uncompassionate state is torturing him and killing him. If they said something else, they know that they should be ready to pack their bags and be forever lost, banished from the church. They know they will soon feel the right foot of fellowship. Just as they have given it to their former closest friends and family (Ester etc.). How often have they been witness to it?

    They write as if in wonder, in amazement at the law, and the state prison system, that it is not compassionate as they imagine themselves to be. How compassionate will the ten commandments be one day?

    Have they so soon forgotten? Is cause and effect as per Wayne, is it compassionate? When the curse comes in Wayne’s “cause and effect,” you get exactly what you did to deserve it. If you end up sick, maimed or dead, surprise, where is the compassion in that? Wayne always says you did it.

    This is LOR’s great theme, yet now they cry for compassion from the law, as if their god is not fairly treated by cause and effect. If they really believed it as they have made others believe, they would understand. They would see the fairness in it all. But no. As for their most prominent theme, along with their god, they are required to become exhibit A—hypocrites.

  43. avatar
    Diane September 10, 2009 at 5:05 pm #

    Hello fellow posters! I never thought I would see this day come, thank you Mark!
    I don’t even know where to start. I think first I’m going to start at the top and catch up.
    Mwah…….I missed you all!

  44. avatar
    Diane September 10, 2009 at 5:06 pm #

    Forgot to say thank you to Jan for the heads up.
    THANK YOU JAN!

  45. avatar
    Jan September 10, 2009 at 8:13 pm #

    You are very welcome Diane. Nice to see you back again.

    Jan

  46. avatar
    Milton September 10, 2009 at 8:51 pm #

    David Mead:

    You speak as if you know our mind, when you have never known our mind. If you had really known our mind you would know that all the things you said, never existed in the mind of those truly converted to God. Only in the unconverted mind do the things you imagine exist.

    You also said, “Only absolute allegiance as to an infallible god is tolerated.”

    Is that how you imagine Jesus? Jesus NEVER required absolute allegiance. When has God ever required absolute allegiance? What kind of “infallible” god do you serve that requires absolute allegiance?

    This proves to me that you have never known God for Who He is. You have never known His Son either.

    I known Him as a Lover, not some infallible god who requires absolute allegiance.

    And the things I say are NEVER said from fear of reprisal or being chastised for it. The things I say come from my heart, not because it is expected of me or because I adhere to some standard that you falsely believe exists or existed.

    What you described existed in the minds of those who tried to control others and from those who saw themselves controlled by others rather than by God alone. I saw you for who you really were at the split when you talked to the other disgruntled ones privately.

    Milton

  47. avatar
    Milton September 11, 2009 at 1:58 am #

    James, you did not read what I wrote with a mind to understand what was written. I never said I would assist anyone who wanted to commit suicide.

    What I did say was the Constitution was written to defend personal liberty and that is gone. I defend personal liberty–as everyone should.

  48. avatar
    Milton September 11, 2009 at 2:04 am #

    Ron, I do not justify suicide. You miss the point altogether.

    And yes Michael is being tortured by the state.

    Jesus was tortured on a cross. Many others have died on crosses too, but the cross of Christ was different because there was physical and mental torture combined with the weight of the sins of the world on Jesus. God was IN Christ reconciling the world unto Himself. God felt death in His Son.

    Michael Travesser’s torture carries elements of torture that you do not understand either. God is in Michael being tortured by a host of things that are beyond your comprehension.

  49. avatar
    ron September 11, 2009 at 4:58 am #

    Milton, you are so heavily indoctrinated into the mythology of religion, that you see only God as defined by someone else. It is exactly like not being able to see the forest for the trees. God doesn’t need anyone to do the hokey pokey to make something happen.
    Have you studied other religions? Have you really checked to see if Rev. Moon, Father Divine, Adi Da, Vissarion, or countless other cult leaders could be the “second coming of Christ”, as they also claimed? Scientology, Islam, Mormanism?
    Do you remember watching the Manson Family on the news? That is exactly the way your cult looks to everyone else. We don’t know each other, but I have always felt that we are all connected. So when I see a child reach out for a hot stove, it is a natural reaction to try to stop them. Your group kind of forced its way into my world by being on TV and the internet.

  50. avatar
    Milton September 11, 2009 at 5:28 am #

    Ron, yes I have looked at many other different religions prior to choosing my own walk with God and many others afterwards too. I looked into eastern religions as well as western.

    Charles Manson and “family” killed Sharon Tate and others in a blood bath. Charles Manson used a variety of drugs. We have killed no one and do not partake of the world’s concoctions in any form and never will.

    There is no way to compare us to them.

    If you do not like what you see on the TV or the internet, shut it off. You are not forced to watch anything.

  51. avatar
    ron September 11, 2009 at 7:09 am #

    The comparison to the Mason Cult has more to do with the glassy eyed stares and the unquestioning loyalty to cult leader and his crazy take on religion. (I’m definitely not the first person to mention the similarities). I know that you guys are non violent and don’t do drugs. As far as what I watch and get involved with on the Internet, I have followed this out of curiosity, and after 2 years, I have learned a lot about Wayne. I read Wayne’s crazy rants and tried to find some sense in them, but there was none to be found.

  52. avatar
    KM September 11, 2009 at 7:36 am #

    Milton, are you living at SC? If not, why not? I thought the whole idea of this church was to live together in perfect harmony on “the land”.

    I know you can keep in touch by phone and internet but it’s not quite the same as being right there in the big middle of this mess.

    If you are, that’s great, but I thought the last time we’d heard from you it was from Oregon or Washington, can’t remember for sure.

    Oh, and for the record I defend personal liberty. My personal liberty is just fine. I own my house, own vehicles, own my business and I even own *gasp* guns. I pay my taxes and my health insurance plan covers our needs. My children have all received wonderful college educations and are making their own mark on our world.

    I might not like everything the government says or does but if I don’t, I work to change it. I noticed that members of the LOR don’t vote. If you don’t vote, then you can’t complain when someone you dislike gets elected or some plan you are against becomes law.

    The last time I looked, chaining yourself to a tree or fasting to get what you want didn’t work out too well for the people participating. I don’t think WB is going to fair too well either, but who knows? Maybe the appeals court will rule in his favor and all this fasting, whining and being force fed will have been for naught.

  53. avatar
    david mead September 11, 2009 at 7:41 am #

    THE LOR GOD

    The absolute allegiance to an infallible god that LOR is required to serve is the man Wayne Bent. For example, when one of his devoted followers writes:

    “I have known him for many many years in various capacities and have never known him to digress from strict integrity in any particular. Etc.”

    He is not talking about Jesus, but about Wayne. It is the Wayne god that is given the exalted position “in any particular.” Jesus is only used by way of comparison to him, as if Wayne’s cross (multiple fornications and the natural embarrassment to him it brought) should be considered somehow equal to the passion of the Savior on His cross.

    Wayne first, and his followers have made this comparison, and though it would embarrass some of the members to compare what Wayne’s fornication to the cross of the Savior, they dare not say so to anyone. If they let it slip in an unguarded moment, they know the consequences all to well. Would they admit it, that they have to be just so careful? Of course not. Even such an admission would get them in sudden trouble. They would have to retract it and show appropriate repentance or down the road they go, kickin rocks.

    As I said, absolute obedience as to an infallible god is what is required if you want to remain considered an insider. Not to Jesus, as one confused poster implied, but to our man in prison. It is Wayne who they speak of as having loved them so wonderfully, never deviating from integrity in any way, as long as whoever is speaking has known him. How many such “testimonies” (broken records) have we heard now?

    As in any other cult, they monitor themselves and each other most carefully. If not, if they were to allow for a moment, say an honest question to be entertained, such as a Bible text that indicates the abomination of taking your son’s wife to bed whenever you want, just that question and you are a goner. You don’t have to be warned not to speak of such a text, the members all know it. Their god (the man Wayne) has spoken on the matter and that settles it. It is for them to take whatever spin he has put on it. If they are going to add something to it, it would be how wonderful he has always been during the 20 or 30 years they have known him. Nothing else is necessary or tolerated.

  54. avatar
    Jan September 11, 2009 at 7:55 am #

    Can someone explain who this Milton person is and what is his connection to Wayne Bent and Strong City?

  55. avatar
    david mead September 11, 2009 at 8:20 am #

    RESOLVE

    Jeff assures us that he knows what his father is doing—fasting. Just fasting–until he gets his way. Wayne explained it this way, he didn’t want to sign off on it, as a child molester, as a “turd” in the state septic tank, something like that. But then if he got some better food, he would agree to do it. Which I guess would mean to go ahead, stop his fast unto death and be their turd in their tank.

    Jeff feels free to speak of what he calls his dad’s reserve. Because of Wayne’s reserve, Jeff says the state will fail.

    What evil thing is the state doing? What sort of torture it is perpetrating on the meek and mild messiah? The state is doing its best to keep messiah alive, against his will—feed him. Three times a day it was bringing him vegetarian meals—such torture. If he ate them, he would not die. But then he could not claim he was being killed. If he starves himself to death, which is a form of suicide, his devoted followers will claim he was killed. Not dead yet, they claim he is being killed and laud his awesome resolve.

    His resolve is to be stubborn and threaten to kill himself. I doubt he thinks for a moment that they would let him go through with it, which means he trusts them to keep him alive. This confidence is what gives our man the “resolve” to appear to be quite intent on suicide (by fast).

    We will soon hear of him again, and from Jeff, explaining how great was his resolve and how the state in its evil intention to feed him, could not break him.

    If he has refused to take food or water, to preserve messiah’s life, the state has probably connected him to feeding tubes. If he has removed them, the state may have had to fasten him to something solid. If he is released from his straps while still determined to remove them, they will not be removed. As soon as he assures those in charge of his care that he will not remove them again, or that he will partake of sustenance again, they would unstrap him. But if this were known, Jeff would not be able to taut his considerable resolve. If he begins eating again, the state could not be characterized as failing. The failure would be Wayne’s.

    Still, I expect that with our man eating again, some claim will be made that it was the state that made the concession. It was they who really gave in to Wayne in some way, and not the other way around. Some kind gesture on their part will be used to demonstrate how they gave in, actually caved in to Wayne at last.

    What is more likely is that he became tired of the straps and tubes. So much for messiah’s considerable resolve.

  56. avatar
    Johnny D. Miller September 11, 2009 at 9:37 am #

    Milton is a former minister of the church. At Castle Dome, he along with Allen Armstrong and John Thompson were basically severed from their Minister credentials and not paid from the tithe anymore. Wayne Bent was then the only paid minister of the LOR. Milton is still a member of the LOR and had lived at Strong City for about 3 or so years. I believe he current is remarried, as he lost his former wife Verna (Purity) when she passed away at Strong City 26 Dec 2006. She is buried there. Milton now lives in Oregon.

  57. avatar
    Diane September 11, 2009 at 11:03 am #

    From my understanding, Bent has been put into segregation as he is a danger to others and himself.
    You don’t get the benefits, for example vists from the outside world when your in segregation.
    Basically, he’s going to sit and hold his breath until he gets what he wants. And I just love how the LORites think that fasting until death will get them their way.
    Jan – you might want to email Prudence. She can tell you all about Milton.

  58. avatar
    david mead September 12, 2009 at 8:56 am #

    TORTURED AND MOLESTED BY THE STATE

    Wayne says that the state is torturing and molesting the innocent. The innocent—and who would that be–himself. Jeff says, “Now they are trying to silence and break him.” If he dies while undergoing the states torture, Jeff was instructed to get the word out that he was killed by someone.

    So then, what does all this sort of awful torture look like? The state is doing its best to keep messiah alive. That’s it. Feed him. That’s the torture. What makes it torture is that three times a day our man is given vegetarian meals which are delivered to him without fail, to do with as he pleases.

    Jeff says that in their endeavors against his father, the state will fail. Actually, more to the point, if it fails (to feed him), his father will die. Perhaps Jeff does not realize this, but he had better hope that it doesn’t fail or his father will not continue to exist.

    Well, truth be told, both Jeff and his father have thought this out to some degree. With the use of a quick calculation, they know the state will not let Wayne die. This confidence in mind, Wayne has the courage to make another show of a fast to the end, knowing the end will not be.

    One thing about death by fast is that unlike other methods of suicide, it takes some time. In other words, at any time during your suicide by fast, if you are interrupted by those in charge of your care, you will not die. Be sure Wayne has included this in his calculations.

    Wayne claims to be molested now. And what does this molestation of messiah look like? He has noticed they won’t let him go home where he could continue molesting the various women waiting there for the “healings” to proceed. People always need to be healed, even though they were already healed once. He would promise not to do any more such healings if they would just let him go home. But now he is convinced it ain’t gonna happen, so he has begun to call it his molestation, by the “dirty old man” sustaining his life, the state.

    Jeff says they intend to break him. And for Jeff, what does this breaking of messiah look like? Regular communication with his devoted followers. If he doesn’t try suicide by starvation, he has a long list of privileges to which he has become accustomed. If messiah doesn’t persist with the intention of harming himself, those pleasures will all be restored. Perhaps somewhat more than other inmates might enjoy. This is what Jeff calls “breaking him”.

    What Jeff calls his resolve is simply his stubborn refusal to interrupt his latest tantrum, be fed and enjoy the special freedoms granted him to date. But Jeff says he knows his father, and he won’t be doing that. He won’t be the one to blink first, wink or say uncle. Jeff is betting that the state “will fail”. If Jeff is correct and they fail at feeding him, it means they will let him have his way and he will die. If the state fails, he will die by his own hand, by starvation. Does Jeff really mean what he says?

    Jeff likes the sound of it, “the state will fail” but as for the state failing, Jeff may not like what that would mean. Or perhaps, if he wants to see his father again, he would prefer to take it back. He should take it back. Before speaking, he should have thought it through—just one step further would have been enough.

    I believe that except for a few (from Strong City), most of us here on this list hope that the state prevails, Wayne blinks first, ends his tantrum and goes back to eating, his life saved. If Wayne prevails, he is a dead man. Just a wink from our man and his life would be preserved. Just that quick. But it would cost him some face and for messiah, just the thought of that might be too much to bear.

  59. avatar
    by thy words September 12, 2009 at 9:47 am #

    The only thing I have ever heard Wayne Bent say in judgment about David Mead is, “I loved that man.”

  60. avatar
    david mead September 12, 2009 at 11:11 am #

    By thy words,

    This might be true what you say. This may be all that you heard him say. But if so, then you weren’t there when over night, he turned everyone against me with his pronunciations on me (judgments).

    Good thing for me they didn’t mean anything. They all failed, not being true. The curses pronounced on me were not to be. Not so, as it turned out.

    If you were there, you heard them with everybody else, so you must not have been present. It was then that about half the members turned against me, would not speak to me for to them, I was “dead, lost, the devil.” If you have contact with those who were there, just ask them if this was not what he said about me. Or look it up in what was written of the devil, and who it was that “michael” said had gone against him in all the various evil ways that only he could describe. Not just some words, entire papers were written against me.

    If you were there and believed Wayne, you treated me this way too. And if not, then perhaps you can make the statement that you never heard Wayne say more about me.

    And if you were present in that day, just tell us who you are and I will remind you of your particular attitude and your treatment of me in that day. And if you were present, I understand that you might not like to be reminded. Then you would probably rather remain anonymous.

    On the other hand, I hope that what you say is true, that you weren’t there for the rest of what he said, for it is true that before that day he did love me, as I still love him. Why do you think I write my head off in the effort to help him see his errors? Except for the sexual, my errors were much the same as his. The only difference between us now is that I have repented, which he takes as a serious threat, not being willing to repent of it.

  61. avatar
    Jan September 13, 2009 at 11:38 am #

    Day 14 of Wayne’s Protest for Catered Meals!

  62. avatar
    david mead September 13, 2009 at 11:58 am #

    Jan,

    If the state is doing its job, which I think we can expect it is, what is the difference between day 14, and oh, say day 12, or 19? Things will change (for the better) when our man begins to accept those regular and healthy vegetarian meals again. That’s the way I eat and I can vouch for it, vegetarianism. I have never eaten flesh, but I certainly don’t have that gaunt, weak or familiar sickly vegetarian look you would expect. I have two senior Olympic gold medals in table tennis.

  63. avatar
    Scott September 13, 2009 at 6:14 pm #

    There is quite an interesting update on the Strong City site by Jeff Bent, tonight. There seems to have been a reversal on allowing Wayne access to his attorney, which seems legally like a smart move. I found it hard to understand why the prison would want to tread on that precarious legal ground, with no attorney allowed to visit. That just seemed wrong.

    And Jeff feels they are performing like the “Three Stooges,” in their actions. It might seem like that, in a way because I am sure they are in unfamiliar territory with Wayne’s fast. Even though they may want to try and maintain some degree of humanity towards his actions, they still have to appear in charge and that in deed will be a challenge as this moves into week 3 and Wayne is only taking in water.

    Jeff also received a mysterious email from an “inside source,” supposedly letting him know his dad’s current condition. The email contained this:

    “until all parties accept that he is in prison your going to but heads and loose…

    For some reason that gave Jeff some comfort and from it he gathered that God’s victory in all this is at hand. I guess my brain has a hard time wrapping myself around Jeff’s theories but then I never claimed to think like a Lorite. And no David, it is not necessary for you to explain it to me. I will just wait and see what develops.

  64. avatar
    david mead September 14, 2009 at 5:04 am #

    WAYNE NEGOTIATES WITH OFFICIALS

    He goes home with the promise that he will do no more of those healing sessions.

    Okay Wayne, we thought you promised not to proceed with those healing sessions.

    These aren’t healing sessions. They are counseling procedures.

    What’s the difference?

    The healing sessions, that was a one time deal. God doesn’t need any more of those.

  65. avatar
    ron September 14, 2009 at 5:46 am #

    Jeff has taken rationalization to a new level!

  66. avatar
    ron September 14, 2009 at 7:04 am #

    Jeff allowed this comment on Strong City’s site:

    5. Posted by John Paul on September 11th at 8:32 AM

    Hello,
    I just want to say that Wayne Bent and all of his followers are a pack of fools. He predicted the end of the world on October 31, 2007. Did it come to past. The Bible says that anyone who makes predictions that does not come true are false prophets. Wayne Bent is a sex starved pervert.

  67. avatar
    david mead September 14, 2009 at 10:53 am #

    NO MORE HEALING SESSIONS

    Wayne Bent has let it be known that God was satisfied with those healing sessions and would not require any more of them. With this in mind, what harm to go home? He feels the officials who have charge of him should be willing to let him go back to his ranch and flock.

    Back at the ranch it would be understood, no more healings. To this end, he would be monitored. Of course his monitors not understanding his religious services or just what he was doing, it would have to be explained to them again, as it was in the trial.

    Well Wayne, it looks like you are back at it again. What you are doing with these women in these counseling procedures is the same as you did in the healing services.

    Oh no. Sorry, you plainly don’t’ understand, that idea just comes from out of your own lust. This is very different from that?

    Don’t you have them undressed again and in bed with you?

    Not for healing. Healing is all over now.

    What are these sessions for then? Isn’t this what you were charged for? This very kind of thing? Charged and sentenced?

    Nobody could prove it.

    You admitted it, wrote about it almost daily in detail on the internet. Along with the personal accounts of the various women involved.

    See what I mean, you are looking at it from the viewpoint of the natural man. We are religious but you aren’t. Like the world does, you have let your own imagination run wild. When we do it, we are like doctors who have no sexual thoughts whatsoever.

    It may be natural what you are doing, but didn’t you agree not to proceed this way?

    These are all counseling procedures now, not healing sessions. Catch my drift? See the difference?

  68. avatar
    Jan September 15, 2009 at 5:59 am #

    Disturbing to say the least.

    I can understand why Jeff feels as he does about what Judge Baca said in a Sidebar Discussion. I remember how I felt when I was doing the transcripts and heard it. I was quite surprised. I believe there is even a discussion here on Beyond 90 Seconds about this. Now Jeff has a link up to that audio and you can all hear Judge Baca’s words:

    Jeff says:

    Even Judge Baca could be heard on the record, during closing arguments, whispering that

    “there is no evidence to support that there was ever a touching of the breast.”

    I can not understand how these words, spoken by Judge Gerald Baca, could mean anything less than “there is no evidence” in whatever context they might have come from. How he could say these words, and then give my father the sentence that he did, speaks to the manner in which malice and vindictiveness took the place of law and fact in his courtroom.

    Some of you may not agree but for me there just might be reasons why these people feel as they do about the State. At the very least they have good reasons to question the severity of the sentence.

    Please listen to Judge Baca’s words at the most recent Strong City Post.

    Jan

  69. avatar
    ron September 15, 2009 at 7:03 am #

    Jan, I guess it comes down to deciding whether you believe the act that Bent performed was for healing, as they claim, or for sex, as all of Bent’s prior writings lead up to, and the pattern he had already shown. I know the jury didn’t get to see everything, but they saw enough to make the decision that this was sexual and just a step in the grooming and control of these underage girls. Also, I guess most of us, by our own sense of right and wrong, immediately knew that a naked minor with a naked(or not) 66 year old man, was not right.
    I’m sure the jurors could also see how impossible it would be for these young girls to sit across from not only Bent, but also the only family that they know and say something that would devastate the whole cult. That is alot to put on anyone, but everyone saw A.S. was traumatized.

  70. avatar
    Sam Redman September 15, 2009 at 7:37 am #

    Unfortunately, Judge Baca’s off the record comments are not relevant in relation to the trial outcome or his eventual sentencing actions, because he was not making a ruling and, most importantly, we don’t know the context. For example, we don’t know whether he was saying those words (even sarcastically) to the defense attorney to be reminding that such was her position. Or, it could be argued that perhaps he merely had a momentary lapse of awareness, which was refreshed, concerning such evidence, prior the sentencing by reviewing the transcript. Off the record comments are not evidentiary or can they be regarded as significant.

    The jury decided that there was evidence that the breast was touched. The jury members are the “deciders of fact.” There were several indicators which could be interpreted as evidence of breast touching. Wayne Bent stood up and showed on his own chest exactly where he placed his large hand over the girls’ “sternums.” It is a simple deduction that a hand placed the way he demonstrated couldn’t help from touching a portion of the breast. Also, one of the victim witnesses said that he kissed her on the breast, which would have been sufficient evidence for the eventual jury decision.

    Emilio Chavez: Did he kiss you on the lips?

    A.S.: Yes.

    Emilio Chavez: One, how many times?

    A.S.: I don’t remember.

    Emilio Chavez: Uhm … more than once?

    A.S.: Yes.

    Emilio Chavez: More than twice?

    A.S.: Yes.

    Emilio Chavez: Did he kiss you anywhere else?

    A.S.: Yes.

    Emilio Chavez: And I know it’s difficult, where did he kiss you?

    A.S.: On the breast.

    Emilio Chavez: Ok. And when you say on the breast, where do you mean?

    A.S.: (Pause) Right here.

    This statement of Judge Baca’s is not only a red herring, but it is a very bad tactic to be raised in a defense appeal process (it was mentioned in the defense appeal arguments), because it is so easily disproved (as I have illustrated) and the rebuttal which can be so methodically done illustrates and emphasizes that there is indeed sufficient evidence of a touching of the breast. The better defense position is not to focus on some offhand off the record comment by the Judge for which the context is not understood and the substance of which is refutable, but instead to concentrate on the inappropriateness of the sentence. This is because an appeals court can direct a re-sentencing and this is the one area where there is a strong likelihood of success.

    I have long maintained that Wayne Bent should be serving his sentence only under house arrest and that it should be a maximum of of only three years. To read my argument for his immediate resentencing and release to serve the balance at his remote ranch just go to my blog (click on my name to the right). Then once you are viewing my blog look in the right panel for a link entitled, “Free Wayne Bent.”

    I am surprised that Wayne has given up hope so easily. The denial of the appeal bond is not a portent of doom regarding the outcome. I think the likelihood of an order for resentencing is strong. The Baca sentence was inappropriate and I think the appeals judges will agree. But, let’s don’t try to make the position on a spurious argument about something Baca said in a sidebar which could have a dozen varied contextual interpretations, all of which are the opposite of what the words seem to say.

  71. avatar
    KM September 15, 2009 at 7:37 am #

    I believe the discussion about the sidebar conversation was that Ms Montoya was saying that her evidence would disprove that there was any touching. Sort of like when you are really listening to someone and to make sure you understood them correctly, you repeat what they said back. Judge Baca was repeating it back to her.

    They also said that they didn’t get all their witnesses in but the State was also limited in witnesses. Prudence didn’t testify and that was one of the big reasons she was there.

    I truly believe that A.S. was traumatized and also felt violated. That’s enough for me to believe it was wrong.

    Sentence wise, it’s a little over done but then I wasn’t the judge who had to deal with all the b.s. over the months, the fasting, the word fasting, the letters, etc. Perhaps the Supreme Court will send the case back for a new sentence, if he’s still alive.

  72. avatar
    James September 15, 2009 at 8:15 am #

    Although I felt the sentence was to the max, I feel like house arrest for Bent would be the equivalent of no punishment. Also, Bent knew he was doing wrong, and did it anyway, knowing there would be consequences.

  73. avatar
    Sam Redman September 15, 2009 at 9:20 am #

    KM pointed out the appeal argument (which the defense has raised); that they didn’t get all their witnesses in. However, courts (judges) have long had the discretionary option to limit the number of witnesses when those being excluded are not actually witnesses to the crime being tried, nor are they those who could testify concerning the whereabouts of the accused at the time of the crime or any other eye witness accounting would be exculpatory (proving innocence). One general rule for exclusion is, if the defense (or the prosecution) has repetitive (saying the same thing as others who did take the stand) character witnesses, whose testimony which would tend to obfuscate or perhaps de-emphasize probative evidence by just making the trial unnecessarily long and boring, then those are permissible to be limited in number. Otherwise defense attorneys will sometimes resort to presenting a never ending parade of lengthy witnesses who really have nothing to add, but whose time consuming testimony will distance the jury from previous prosecution (or defense) witnesses who actually were at the scene of the crime they are considering.

    I’m of the opinion that the prosecution wasn’t denied Prudence’s testimony, but, instead, they made the decision not to call her, since she wasn’t there at the crime scene and they felt that the defense hadn’t raised anything with their “character” witnesses, so there was nothing salient which needed to be rebutted.

  74. avatar
    david mead September 15, 2009 at 11:32 am #

    How important should a whispered side bar be considered? If a man beats you with a club for instance, should he be so glad what he thinks the judge thought, that the judge may have whispered something to the effect there was no evidence your eyes for example were put out?

    That you may not have done this or that—so. Okay, the whole scene was obscene. What you did was foul enough, without adding to it.

    After a molestation of any kind, there are always many offenses left uncommitted. This, in any crime scene. The molester can always say something like, “well, I didn’t do this or that.” Or “I thought the judge said he thought I didn’t do something or another. If this is an acceptable defense, no one would be guilty.

  75. avatar
    david mead September 15, 2009 at 8:23 pm #

    Jeff calls the judge a hate-good for sentencing his father after being found guilty for what he did.

    Any molester of children when caught can look at what he “didn’t do” and say something like, “There were plenty of foul things that I did not do to it/them, which I certainly could have done, had I not been so circumspect. And I know the judge noticed some of them too, yet he convicted me for what I did do. How inappropriate of him. What a judge hate-good. Now I know what to expect from the evil system.”

  76. avatar
    Jan September 16, 2009 at 7:21 pm #

    I thought what the judge said in the sidebar was troubling in the sense that if it were my loved one on trial and I then later listened to these transcripts and heard that statement coming from the judge, I would be very angry and would probably feel even more justified in believing my loved one was innocent.

    I do know that “off the record comments are not evidentiary nor can they be regarded as significant,” as Sam so astutely stated in his above post.

    In fact I agree with everything Mr. Redman said. It was quite well written. There is no question that to pull this one sentence of Judge Baca’s and be focusing on it for the Appeal would be a huge mistake. We certainly were not privy to that whole conversation so how and what Judge Baca meant is not exactly clear. And it is as Sam said actually not true based on the testimony of A.S.

    I do not know what arguments Bent’s attorney used for the Appeal. But since I too, have long felt this sentence was completely out of line for the offense, hopefully that is their main argument. It would be a shame to not wait and see if this sentence can be reduced and I too am surprised at this hasty dramatic fasting drama because that seems to be an action that shows Wayne Bent is just giving up. I never thought this man was a quitter.

  77. avatar
    david mead September 16, 2009 at 8:00 pm #

    Jan, Wayne is not giving up. No way. He is not quitting—this it the biggest tantrum he can throw. The best threat he can muster. Far from giving up, he intends to get his way with now. If not all he wants, at least as much as he can get. You misperceive the man. Jeff could explain it for you.

    Beside what Sam reported, clearly showing what the record shows of the touching of the breast, KM put the small snippet of Judge Baca (that Jeff took out of context) in proper context. As anyone could who did not intend to sell it as something else.

    KM noticed that it was not said as “a statement”, but during a private conversation, and in direct response to Wayne’s lawyer. She had just said something to the effect that there was no evidence for the touching, which was a part of her job description to say, and the judge was repeating it back to her, that she understood what she just said. In conversation, it happens all the time.

    This is the kind of thing Jeff (and Wayne) have to hang on to. But what else do they have?

    They are certainly not so careful in their own pronouncements such as to the judge upon sentencing “I won’t be there but for a few days”, something like that “just so you know”. This is a really big error on the part of messiah, but does it matter. No, better to look for an error on the part of the judge so as to make him Hate-Good for it.

    Just so you know Wayne, it has been more than a few days, and your still there.

    How about “Guilty on all counts”? Jeff just recounted for us how his father called him forward to his table to tell him he would be found guilty. He want us to see the amazing prophecy fulfilled. He had written it on a napkin if I remember correctly and passed it to his lawyer as well, “Guilty on all counts”, it read. In retelling of his fathers accuracy as a prophet, he left this part out. Why did he leave it out, guilty on all counts? He was not found guilty on all counts.

    If he is messiah, this error, these errors are worse than Judge Baca who makes no such claim.

  78. avatar
    Sam Redman September 17, 2009 at 2:50 am #

    No need to speculate

    Actually, what was actually said in the exchange is quite clear. There is no need to speculate about who said what in response to whom.

    From the transcript:

    (The first portion is from Ms. Montoya’s closing statement to the jury and is heard by all)

    Ms Montoya: Is it a battery in the Jewish religion to have circumcision? Is that a battery? Are they touching the intimate sexual parts of an individual? Is it ok, if the religions big and widely accepted? Is that ok? But, because it’s an off the wall, offbeat group, small group…

    Emilio Chavez: (to the judge) May we both approach?

    Judge Baca: Alright. Counsel may approach.

    —-Beginning of Sidebar ————————-

    (Jury cannot hear sidebar, but the microphone picked it up).

    Emilio Chavez: She’s going for jury nullification. There’s no grounds to compare this to any religion. It’s just adding confusion to the jury. She can’t go on to describe what’s allowed in the Jewish religion and ask them to make a determination cause circumcision is allowed, that this should be allowed in this religion.

    Ms Montoya: Your honor, they are trying to sell to the jury that criminal sexual contact took place, because he touched the chest. Other touchings take place in other religions. This man is inno… being persecuted because of his religion. They say that it’s not religion, but it is.

    Judge Baca: There’s no evidence to support that there was ever a touching of the breast. Your client has denied adamantly on the stand that he did not touch the breast. And so the question is really, “Did he or did he not touch the breast?” And not whether it is part of a religious practice. So the objection is sustained.

    —– End of Sidebar —-

    So, there is no need to misquote anyone when we can read what was actually said. It is a strange exchange, but it seems apparent that it was a communication by the judge directed specifically to Ms. Montoya with the judge pointing out that whether the breast was touched is the crux of the matter for the jury to decide.

    There is some validity to the consternation expressed by Jeff Bent that it seems to be in complete contrast, even though the jury returned a guilty verdict, for a judge to make such a statement and then days later impose such a draconian sentence. But, like I said earlier, what the judge commented off the record is not relevant in the appeals process. And without understanding his demeanor (his facial expression to the defense attorney might have indicated that he was being sarcastically facetious), no one can know if he was actually implying something other that what the words say.

    But, whatever the opinions, it’s better not to have to guess what words were actually spoken.

    — Sam

  79. avatar
    david mead September 17, 2009 at 4:17 am #

    Hello Eileen,

    Thank you for you letter of yesterday. You didn’t give me a way to respond but since you must have intended your letter would be a blessing to me in some way, I certainly take it that way and thought to answer it here.

    Firstly, I believe you are sincere in your affections toward Wayne, and in your recounting of the history you have with him. My affections and worship was sincere as well, but slightly different from yours. Mine was not to the man Wayne, but I too was sincere in my trust of the church (LOR) and its ability to save us. This you can believe.

    But sister, neither Wayne (as in your case), nor the church (as in mine) are worthy of our worship or trust to save us, for they cannot. I had to repent of that trust. But there is One who is worthy of it. Soon Wayne will lie in his tomb and not be raised the third day as his followers will expect. Nor the third week, etc. Please notice that the One more deserving of our trust could not be held in his tomb until the second resurrection, but was raised the third day to eternal life. How can we fail to see the difference? His resurrection is ours.

    Do you think I am offended at Wayne’s treatment of me, sister Eileen? On the contrary. Let me take this opportunity to disabuse you of this thought. I give Wayne all the credit for making me want to be out of LOR, and away from him, for at the time, as I said, I (mistakenly) thought it my salvation. I have told him this and personally thanked him for his treatment of me. For this, God used him mightily. If it had not been for the man Wayne, I would probably still be in the church LOR and much like you and the others still there. Praise God from whom all blessings flow!

    How nice it would be if I could claim that I studied myself out of LOR, but I cannot take any of the credit for that (as some do). NONE. The light came after I was removed from it.

    You speak highly of the book, His Only Gift. It may surprise you to find out that theme did not come from Wayne. Ask the old timers like the Davises or anyone else. Wayne’s contribution was what he calls “cause and effect” as you well know. Much of the idyocricy in which you believe came from me, I am ashamed to say.

    I know, Wayne wants to claim it all as his origin, and I would like to credit him for it all too, but it isn’t so. At least 50% of what was called LOR was mine. Do you think me proud for saying this? Then you have misunderstood me. Then you don’t know how ashamed I am for my part in it.

    The reason I write about it now as I do is to undo the damage if I can. As much as possible. Expose the error, not because I am hurt or offended as you might think, but because I have hurt other dear ones like you. This is not accomplished with tears alone, but some difficult, hard things must be said as well, which you might wonder at. How can David say such things to his former loving friend?

    If I am correct, it may be that you will not be with us much longer. I would heal you if I could. Before you go and leave us alone, I happen to know and trust that Jehovah God can steal your heart away…away from man. This is all it would take. He did it for me, which means He can do it for anyone. He does it all the time. In this, I have the utmost confidence.

    One other thing, you spoke of the importance of how we treat “the least of these.” You have some of these dear ones too, sister Eileen. You may see some of them soon, and I can assure you that what you said to me is correct–your treatment of them will be received by Him, as if it were Him. Again, if you are correct, and I know you are, what an opportunity.

    If we do not correspond here again…, dear sister, go in peace.

    David Mead

  80. avatar
    Jan September 17, 2009 at 4:45 am #

    Even better response, Mr. Redman.

  81. avatar
    hanifa September 17, 2009 at 5:14 am #

    David

    Because you have chosen to make public what I intended to be a private communication, I will post the letter I sent to you by way of Mr. Horner in a following comment so that those reading might have an accurate context with which to consider your response.

    Regarding your response, I find myself amazed and thinking, How are the mighty fallen. The mean-spirited words of David Mead read here on this site bear no resemblance to the pre-church split David Mead who had been described to me by those who knew him. Claiming yourself now to be ashamed of cause and effect, (of which God, alone, is the author), shows you to be adversarial to the very foundation of heaven.

    Refer not to me as your sister, David, for my family are those who love, cherish and do the will of God and nothing more, even unto the death of their own self-interested life.

    The “least of these” are safe with God.

  82. avatar
    hanifa September 17, 2009 at 5:15 am #

    David

    My name is Hanifa Travesser, formerly Eileen O’Keefe of upstate NY.

    In 1985, through a series of divinely arranged circumstances, I found myself, with my then husband and two young children, in the Colville, Washington living room of Allen Armstrong. Having never met the man before and also, at the time being a drug addicted, recently sobered alcoholic back-to-the-lander, Allen’s ways and preaching seemed a little odd to me. However, considering myself “open minded”, I looked past his oddities and agreed to his invitation to sit in on a bible study. As he began that study, Allen read from Exodus, “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.”

    At that moment, I was transported into a whole other consciousness. I do not remember another word Allen said at that time. Those words, “Remember the Sabbath day…” rang throughout my entire being. I had no idea what a sabbath day was nor what it meant to keep it holy but I did know that Father, Himself, spoke to my heart and the heavenly orchestra that accompanied His words, resounding within my entire being, could not be denied. It was a defining moment, to say the least, in my experience as a soul made in the image of God.

    From that point on, I found myself being moved into a realm that was entirely new, and yet, at the same time, interestingly comfortable and familiar as though I had lived in the Sabbath knowledge forever. Although I now knew that the 7th day was set apart for God, what that would mean in terms of my every day life began to unfold on a moment by moment basis. I did not want to become a 7th day adventist for when Allen had introduced me to that religion, it did not resonate with what God had put in my heart. I did, however, want to learn from the foundation that had established the adventist faith as I heard God speaking through those old teachings. When we left Colville and returned to our tiny homestead in upstate NY, little did I know just how my life would be changed simply because I began to believe God.

    After about a year or so, and after a very intense time of being carried through an heavenly education by God, alone, I gave birth to my first and only son. In three months time this little one’s work was done and his little robust body succumbed to SIDS. During this same interim of time, on the other end of the continent, Allen and Stephanie had been going through their own process of separating themselves from false teaching and apostasy. We had corresponded somewhat over the time since I had met them in person. After I informed them of my son’s death, (and not as a response to that but only coincidentally), they sent me materials and letters regarding their process but my grief was so intense that I could not receive much of what they had written. Indeed, it all sounded like Greek to me at the time.

    Eventually, through Allen and Stephanie, I was introduced to Wayne’s writings. Reading his words was like talking to myself. I had such a ring in my heart of the truths he espoused in his simple and clear style. One day, as I read in His Only Gift, I felt myself stumbling over Wayne’s addressing of children, their salvation and the state of the dead. Up until this time, I had wanted to believe that my son was safely in heaven with Jesus. The truth of what Wayne wrote caused me to feel undone as I wondered why there was such a disparity between what I wanted to believe and what he was saying was true. This discomfort was especially magnified because the home bible study group I was then attending had already begun to speak to the issues about my son’s death and they were in agreement with my catholic view. The conflict between these two schools of thought troubled me and it was the first time I remember feeling offended by the truth.

    Over the years since then, I have found myself offended a million times by what Wayne has told me, both personally and publicly, and have had to go off to a quiet place to ask Father about it all. The pattern is consistent. Wayne would say something that I felt offense at and I would go and pray about it. Father would show me that only my ego was offended and that Love sides happily with the truth.

    A true friend tells the truth at all times, even if it puts the relationship in jeopardy. A true friend will risk losing a friendship for his trust that the truth will prevail over the preconceived notions, unconscious deceptions and traditions of man. A true friend loves at all times, including times of speaking hard things. Wayne Bent has been the only true friend I have ever had. Though the words given him to speak have often caused me to die again and again, I am grateful beyond the means I have to express it that his integrity and faithfulness to the word of God to his soul, (far beyond the confines of the letter of the law), have always opened a door into a sacred place and offered me more light than I ever dreamed of.

    Siding with truth has cost me everything in terms of human existence. The world looks on and mocks but I could not have done anything differently. Father has led me all the way. He sometimes used Wayne to nudge me back onto the path I was ignorant of until His divine pressure caused me to see clearly.

    It is not Wayne who offends you, David. Father used a man to offend you and in so doing, illustrates His word that what you do to the least of these (is not Wayne “least” in your eyes right now?) you do unto Him. It was ever thus that humans get the opportunity to see God in human flesh, anyone and everyone’s human flesh, and then decide what they will do with/to Him.

    Wayne has spoken of you over the years and always with tenderness and respect. It took many years after the split to be able to deal with the pain inflicted on his heart by losing what he considered to be one of his most precious friends. I have often seen tears in his eyes as he recalled the events that led up to and included the split.

    Your public demonizing of Wayne is shameful and unfounded. Even if there was some basis upon which Wayne was “guility” of the things you say he did, why is it that time and the power of love has not softened your heart towards him and caused you to forgive him for the crimes of which you accuse him?

    Your judgment of Wayne is really your judgment of yourself. Reading your bitter words is a window into your soul. I am sorry for the blackness you harbor because I know what it is doing to you. There is no remedy for an offended soul. I know. I have been there more times than I can count. The only hope of relief/healing I have ever found is in choosing to die to one’s self and humbly agreeing with God.

    Sincerely,
    Hanifa

  83. avatar
    Jane September 17, 2009 at 5:32 am #

    I have been quietly following this case for the past couple of years.

    What speaks louder to me than any comment on this page is Judge Baca stating that there was no evidence to support a touching of the breast.

    This judge went forward with a trial knowing this.

    There are a 3 sets of people here attacking Wayne Bent.

    1. disgruntled former LOR members

    2. people who are following the case and *think* they have a grasp on these people’s beliefs

    3. regular internet trolls who have nothing else to do but make these attacks

    Now, pushing all of these three things aside, here is what I see:

    A man who was sentenced to a crime regardless of the fact that Judge Baca didn’t have enough evidence.

    We have a former member of the church, a young woman stating that although she felt molested, Wayne Bent never touched her breast.

    Seriously people. Set your own prejudices aside and look at the case itself.

    There are way too many of you wanting to burn this man at the stake because YOU are against everything he believes in.

  84. avatar
    Jane September 17, 2009 at 5:42 am #

    Does not matter how it is interpreted, this judge still went through with this trial knowing full well that there was no evidence.

    Please show ME the evidence. Even the witness stated that she was NOT touched on the breast.

    There is still no proof but this man is going to sit in prison for many years. All we have is hearsay.

    Imagine yourself sitting in a prison on that.

  85. avatar
    Jane September 17, 2009 at 6:06 am #

    After reading through the majority of these comments I am left to wonder how many here have actually lived with LOR, how many are groupies so that they can get their “bash Wayne Bent” fix, and how many are truly interested in the case and have a respect that these people are real human beings.

  86. avatar
    James September 17, 2009 at 6:35 am #

    I, too, have followed this case for over 2 years. I read the transcripts, and as Sam as pointed out in his above posts, A.S said on the stand that Wayne kissed her on the breast. This young girl was so traumatized by this “healing” that she took a stand against everyone she knows. My heart goes out to the parents and A.S.
    Wayne’s actions were not much different than the catholic priests who molested many young bodies and minds because they had the trust of their flock.

  87. avatar
    Jan September 17, 2009 at 7:17 am #

    I not only read the transcripts, I typed and listened to every word of the transcripts. And what has been posted here by Sam is important for you to read and reread again. Any other part that you are not remembering accurately, just ask me, I have it. I wish some of you could have actually heard the words, because sometimes written words, only tell part of the story.

    Jane you are in my opinion not being fair about the posting here. Not everybody on any message board is going to agree with everything on either side. There are always shades of grey. Yes, former Lorites are much more likely to be very critical of Wayne and his actions. If they continued to believe as you do Jane, they would still be there.

    But there are some here that are really concerned about the remaining members at Strong City, like Jeff and especially young members like Esther. Many of us have expressed such concern many times.

    And there are a couple like myself and certainly Mr. Redman that have posted repeatedly that this sentence was much to severe. Sam has given very articulate and well thought out suggestions on how an appeal might succeed and not by trying to bring down Judge Baca by some odd remark in a sidebar.

    There are even a few here believe it or not, that have actually donated to an Appeal effort. So saying that the comments here are misplaced, or trolls, or groupies is probably not the best assessment of the eight-five or so comments here.

    For the most part, this has been a great discussion, especially the comments from Wayne’s loved ones. I honestly do feel their pain in all of this. No matter how some of us might feel about Michael, he is a human being and he obviously has very strong supporters. I just hope, and I have said this many times neither he nor they do anything they will regret. As the Appeal, if approached correctly, might just bring a reduced sentence. I would think waiting to see how it all shakes out, would be worth it.

  88. avatar
    whisperwind September 17, 2009 at 4:34 pm #

    I think that anyone who has followed this for as long as Jane has and only gets that everybody is out to get the LOR is out of touch with reality. I can’t speak for the internet trolls and the people in grouping #2 that she speaks of, so let me say something for the “disgruntled ones” that might reflect some of their thoughts. There are very few of us, if any, that aren’t heartbroken over this mess. We would only hope that there is a way in which the LORites eyes could be opened to the moral corruption that they have fallen into. We are more than glad to let these dear ones find happiness in this world where they can, but we will not stand idly by and watch a tragedy happen without speaking out and doing what we can to prevent it. We want the best of Gods blessings to be upon them.
    Jane you will never know the things the LOR has put people through, and it is obvious that you don’t know the first thing about what you are talking of in this regard, so what might serve you well is to put your prejudice aside and ask questions of people like David. They were there. So you go ahead and speculate to what ever conclusion you want, but you have no justification for vilifying ex-members.
    Now, I would have you ask yourself this, why would I choose to have sympathy for a convicted sexual offender and his supporters and castigate people that wouldn’t go along with them? And why would I chose to believe that the only motivation that these “offended” former members have for speaking out is to persecute the current members. Could it be that somebody suggested it and you bought it hook, line and sinker. Welcome to mind control, you have just taken your first step into Wayne’s world. You need to wake up and smell the coffee. Just because someone utters the words messiah, rights, love and persecution doesn’t make it so.

  89. avatar
    david mead September 18, 2009 at 9:01 am #

    CULT STYLE MIND CONTROL

    Often here the question is raised, in the cultic form of mind control, how does it happen.

    The subject of mind control has been mentioned here recently. I was a cult member as most of us know and it happened to me. This said, some would be quick point out that I too made it happen to others. And they would be correct. So I guess I qualify for one who could explain it.

    I certainly did not think it mind control at the time, either what was done to me, or what I did to others. To us, it just seemed like persuasion. At first it would offend me, but then, like the sister described it for us, I would fight it, either privately or with others who already had accepted it, until I had accepted it as well. To us it seemed like what is called simply advice, or argumentation. We thought we were merely persuading each other, rather like missionaries would do in their work for others less fortunate than they. Less fortunate in that they do not understand what the missionary does.

    This does not sound so threatening now does it. How to put it in perspective. Really, in retrospect, it was often “an offer that could not be refused”

    I know now that our first impression was the correct one—offense. Our minds were offended. It takes a series of these before you get to where you will accept for instance a man taking various men’s wives to bed, including his own son’s. As it happens in cults, this is really a most common occurrence and anyone who doesn’t want to find himself down the road kickin rocks in the next five minutes will struggle with it until he confesses to the other members how right it is. And when you have had enough of struggling with it, in view of what it will cost you (the church and heaven—salvation) you will accept even this. How to put this into perspective.

    For one example, we all know that under Hitler, it got to the point where people had their arms sawed off of them and sewed onto others, just to see what would happen. The people who did the sawing, what were they thinking? By then, because of mind control, they had come to the place where they thought it was a medical procedure. After all, even today in hospitals it is now routine to take body parts from one persona and sew them onto another. This, in order to saves lives. Well, Hitler’s saw men came to think they were doing the same thing. Something good.

    Now, as for mind control, let’s compare what is happening in cults (like Strong City) and what happened under Hitler with the saw men. The subjects for arm switching were all unwilling ones. This is to say, according to the record, none of them were in agreement with what was about to happen to them. None of them came in off the street and offered his body for the medical experimentation they knew went on in those places. This, in great contrast to the cult member who is first made willing.

    At first, the member is offended by what he hears. His better judgment is aroused, but he is trained to wrestle with it until he submits. Has not the guru always been right before? Is this not the church? Are we not the people? Are not all the testimonies the same, that the leader has never been found in error in all the twenty or more years that anyone has known him? Has he not always been led of God? Is he not a man of the strictest of integrity? Has he not wept for his people? Has he not made the utmost of personal sacrifices for them? Did he not bring to them the foundation of heaven’s government—cause and effect? Then how could this latest offence be wrong? It must be correct, just like all the rest. That he might be wrong this time, Boy, What was I thinking.

    If Hitler were to have the same measure of success as the cults, he would have had to take more time with the perspective candidates. The ones slated for organ and limb transplants. He would have carefully left them alone until they came willingly, perhaps naked and ready. He would have recorded their willingness and how God had led them to ask for it.

    Then, and only then would he have begun to work his magic on their bodies. This, so no one could say they had not asked for it, or were unwilling. And if after he started on them, if some of them became unwilling, or changed their minds for some reason, became fearful or conscience changed its mind, he would have them replaced. Thus, maintaining the strictest of integrity.

    Hitler thought that in all he did, he was fulfilling prophecy. But unlike the cults, he may not have had a ready scripture for each procedure. The cult leader does. He might even have a prophecy with the actual number of subjects he is presently treating (healing, bedding). He may even have a couple more than his prophecy (text) allows for. Or he may have to switch out a few to maintain the number indicated (who he wants involved).

    Suppose Hitler had enjoyed the same level of “success” as the cult leader, and his subjects all became willing ones? Then he could have demonstrated as do the cults, that he did not do anything to them that they did not ask for? Would this have been a superior achievement to the way he actually did it?

    In contrast to Hitler, the cult leader is proud that he can say that in all he does, he never works his magic (healing) on the unwilling. Is this superior to Hitler’s method, who always did it to the unwilling? Which one is better, the cult leaders method, or Hitler’s?

  90. avatar
    david mead September 18, 2009 at 9:45 am #

    LIKE A GOOD PHYSICIAN.

    I have a question for Jeff and Wayne. Wayne has set forth the superiority of what he does in his healing sessions to that of worldly doctors, some of whom he says have sexual thoughts while examining their female patients. In this, he may be correct. There may be some doctors who have sexual thoughts while examining their patients. We should not argue this point.

    Wayne has explained that he is fulfilling the prophecy of Isahiah 4:1, and the seven women. He says that if he had not done it, someone else would have. For him, this was not a pleasant thought and so he soon became willing, was obedient to the prophecy, and during some healing sessions, consummated with most of them.

    He has further made the effort to explain to us that in these sessions, his thoughts were like those of a good doctor. In other words, not of a sexual nature. What he wants us to understand is that he is not like us, the world, who during sex are thinking sexual thoughts.

    Now here is my question; has anyone else wondered how a consummation could happen without thoughts of a sexual nature?

    I mean it seems that without some thoughts of a sexual nature, the consummation would not have taken place. Not a true or real consummation. Sure, there could have been an attempt made or several of them, but don’t we know from experience that they would have failed?

    And if so, Isaiah 4:1 has yet to be fulfilled. Imagine that. Wayne is proceeding under the impression, thinking that it was fulfilled, just for the attempt. No wonder his “lord” has not returned.

    If he is correct in his description of how it happened, without a thought of a sexual nature, it may be that someone else will have to do it (as he suggested).

  91. avatar
    Beyond90Seconds September 20, 2009 at 5:51 am #

    As I just commented on the more recent Wayne Bent thread, keep it respectful here. Feel free to disagree. But keep it respectful.
    The vast majority of your comments have been very good. Please keep it going strong…

  92. avatar
    Clytie Hosah September 21, 2009 at 8:41 pm #

    David Mead, in a reply to Milton you wrote, “When it was sold to him, he bought it, and now he thinks we should buy it as well.” I want to state clearly in response to your comment that no, we have nothing to sell, not even to you. Don’t you remember, David? The Gift is free. What has happened is that you have not recognized the Gift in the opened and publicly revealed Package, and so you have refused what has been freely given. It’s okay though, because that was the whole point. Each soul is free to choose what they want. I don’t want you or anyone else to have anything that you don’t want.

    I remember those early days very well and you are right, David. You were surely under the influence of “mind control” as you demanded in your low booming voice at LS seminars, “Who do you say that I am?” But it had nothing to do with any kind of hypnotic spell that Wayne held over anyone’s mind. It was simply your own context that caused you to follow a man around, trying to copy him, and then later claiming “mind control” because you were following the voice of a man instead of the Voice of God. If one can’t recognize the difference, one is sure likely to end up when it’s all over crying, “victim of mind control!”, but it can’t be blamed on anyone but one’s self. You did not recognize the Voice of God when He spoke through Wayne. You only saw then, and still only see now, a man, or you would not be mocking him now. That is how you could rise up against him. You did not believe he was a man filled with the Holy Spirit for God’s purposes. That is how you could make the false claims that you and the others made, which brought about the church split. It is how you can cover up your own sin and project it onto Wayne now. It happened the same way with Jesus, too. Some souls were offended, especially the Pharisees, and Jesus was nailed to a tree.

    Tell me, where is everyone now, David? Where are all those folks who were standing with you then? No one’s life could ever be the same again after that experience. For me personally it served to ground my faith even deeper than before in what the church was about. Some were too confused to even go back to where they had come from and others just left in their offenses. A few, such as yourself, have not been able to let it go. Your life is still all about the LOR or you would not be writing on Internet blogs in the manner that you are. It’s all wrapped up to look like something different than what it is, though. You write of your terrible experience in a “cult” that you want to repent from now, and to warn the whole world against it, but that’s really a total evasion of the truth of the matter. The truth is, that “it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.”

    You can argue your “points” all you want to, fill the blogs with your hateful dissertations, while at the same time claiming to love the one you mock. You speak with a forked tongue and your bite is that of a viper. You can swear you know all about Wayne’s motives from beginning to end, you can speak to persuade those who like yourself believe they know so much because after all, “I was there”, but you know nothing of Him at all. You have proven by your words and actions that you never did, not even in the very beginning. You never knew his Spirit. You left in 1988 and anything you think you know of the church since that time, or of Strong City, has come from more offended souls such as yourself. “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.”

    You can’t admit the truth even though it is totally obvious, that you did get offended when called to account for your behavior at the time which quickly led to the general dissension among many members and culminated in the subsequent church split. Even Hanifa tried to share with you how “a true friend will always tell the truth at all times, even it if puts the relationship in jeopardy.” She shared her own experience in enough detail for anyone who so desires to understand the principle, to understand how Messiah works with the human soul, but still you do not, or will not, see it.

    My words will also be turned into something else other than intended to fit the context of the individual who reads them. The reason for this is written in the Scriptures, “And by unlimited seduction to evil and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing (going to perdition) because they did not welcome the Truth but refused to love it that they might be saved. Therefore God sends upon them a misleading influence, a working of error and a strong delusion to make them believe what is false, In order that all may be judged and condemned who did not believe in [who refused to adhere to, trust in, and rely on] the Truth, but [instead] took pleasure in unrighteousness.”

    How Wayne has loved you, though. I’ve been here since day one and nothing but expressions of respect and true love have ever passed Wayne’s lips when referring to David Mead. He was personally devastated with the result of the split on many levels. It took years for him to be resolved. He still loves you, David, in a way that you will never understand with your current context, and I, for one, am not about to try to change your mind/context. Michael’s Spirit came in Wayne to assure each soul that free choice, breaking the chains that bound us to our previous contexts that were not given of God but by “mere men.” “Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.”

    Sincerely,
    C. Davis

  93. avatar
    Johnny D. Miller September 30, 2009 at 2:22 pm #

    I am putting this post on this thread, as I can see that the most current thread about Wayne’s fast is rather full at the monent and rather heated. But further down that thread Milton Berheisel wants me to quit riding the fence, per say, and to really speak my mind. I am willing to do that, and that is why I wrote my book. Milton wants to know where I stand, for whatever reason for himself, I just don’t know, but here goes. I will let my book speak for me. Following is a very small section from my book where I am writing about my thoughts and opinions about the 7 Virgins and Wayne’s Nude “Healing” sessions with the under aged girls. Here goes:

    “No one knows what goes on behind closed doors, yet we also know what major attractions cause those doors to be closed and a “Do Not Disturb” sign to be put on the doorknob. These seven virgins were selected by the same methods which attracted the original “Two Witnesses”. Suggestive e-mails are sent out to the camp, saying that seven literal virgins are needed to pour out the Seven Last Plagues onto the earth. Also e-mails are also sent out saying how we all need to be naked and unashamed before God, and Michael says, “I am the perfect embodiment of God. I am humanity and divinity combined, and I swear it by the One who lives forever and ever”, his own words. So these young virgin girls are being groomed to believe and to desire to be naked and unashamed before God. And Wayne is viewed as God in the flesh. One by one they present themselves to Michael and have private nude one on one, skin to skin sessions with him alone in his bedroom. Soon Michael has sex with the virgins and deflowers most of the known legal age virgins in the church on the Land. Many years earlier Wayne had a vasectomy performed on himself, so he was not able to make any female pregnant. Interesting enough, two male virgins had also presented themselves to Michael as well, but he turns them away. He only wants the young girls. But a problem arises, he still needs two more virgins, as only five of them have come forward. Soon two more female virgins, biological sisters come forward, two sisters aged 16 and 14 years of age, Ashley Sayer and Lakisha Sayer and they want to also be naked and unashamed as well, and they also tell Michael that God sent them. Michael wrestles with God, so he tells us, and he holds a meeting with the church to bring them into the decision making process. He asks us if we all would still support him if he agreed to allow these two underage girls to come to him to fulfill their request. Many of us are speechless. I can see faces filled with doubt, concern and fear. The other virgins were of legal age, but these two are minor children, and Michael was seriously considering to give them what they wanted. Michael is looking for anyone to raise an objection to the matter on the table. Remember Michael owns everything. We have everything in common and he buys all the food and clothing for the camp. We have nothing, and he has everything. He has all of the women, the vehicles, the land, our lives, and I really do want to see someone else raise their hand in objection so I could also stand with them and raise my hand. There is silence in the room and everybody is looking around. He tells all of us that we would be taking a chance, that we would be supporting someone who could be accused of sex crimes against children, and we would be privy to it. He does spell it all out to us. We know everything and still the room remains quiet. I really want to raise my hand. The LOR had just recently lost one of her members in death, and that was my very good friend, Cecil Halstead. Cecil would have raised both of his hands and said a loud “NO”. How I wished Cecil was in that room then. No one raises their hand, and I sit there and I become a coward, and my raising my hand alone would insure my being forced to leave the land with nothing. Two witnesses in the room would have ended it, for it was written, “Out of the mouth of two witnesses, let it be established.” The whole room stays very quiet, and the entire church enters into his crime with him. He has bought our silence, and a small smile forms on his face, and he gets up and dismisses the meeting. The whole camp has assured to look the other way. I leave the room with a sick feeling in my stomach. Nothing is withheld from Michael Travesser. Now even the children belong to him. Michael does not have intercourse with the two sisters. Instead he has what he calls “nude” healing sessions with each of them. I will not go into detail, as this is not one of those kinds of books. But what goes on behind those closed bedroom doors are simply wrong and illegal.”

    Well now you have it Milton. I saw myself as a coward back then. And yet, in my heart, I still believe that I was not alone in that room as I remember the tension of that room. I was able to read the many faces. There were other cowards there present as well. But where are they now? Still there. You wasn’t there. Would you have raised your hand? I couldn’t live with it for long, and at the appointed time I was true to my own heart and left Strong City. I have never returned, and I never will. You now have your answer.

  94. avatar
    david mead September 30, 2009 at 2:31 pm #

    I should probably clarify myself somewhat, how and why I write as I do. As for making Strong City a strong jail, former LOR member writes that he was “just kidding, sort of”.In other words, he was not necessarily serious

    What makes much of what I write seem is serious is Strong City, Wayne and whatever he is presently doing, which now is his fast. I realize that most of us here are serious with their comments and have legitimate concerns for those few who Wayne still has confused. I too am truly concerned about them. But there is danger in taking what they say, what they intend to sell us about Wayne, too seriously. This is because the spin they put on it isn’t reality. We know that but they don’t.

    And when we take it seriously, they could feel encouraged to proceed with it, sell us some more, and perhaps think they should believe it more themselves.

    In much of what I say, I am repeating back to them, what they said to us. For instance, if we don’t accept what Wayne has done (we all know what it was), we are told we will be lost. Not accepting him and his behavior as our Messiah, our salvation is not possible. Isn’t this what we have been told. Sam could find it for us if there is any doubt.

    But when I say it back to them, somehow it doesn’t sound as believable as when they say it to us. They don’t like how it sounds when I say it back to them. Now it sounds offensive. Coming from me, it sounds ridiculous. Well, that could be because it is. Or is it just me? It is offensive, it is ridiculous, it is sexual and not religious. Of course you can make anything you want into your religion and call it religious and require others to respect it. But not everything you, just because you call it religion deserves respect. This is Wayne’s case.

    Do I hope him the best? Yes, all the best. Is he doing himself and other damage? Yes. So how do I put those two together? I am doing it the best I can.

    He wants me to put the two together; respect him by respecting what he has done (is doing). I can’t do that. I do not respect what he does and neither should anybody else, lest they damage themselves further. He concludes that since I obviously don’t respect what he does, that I don’t respect him. This, he has sold to his followers—David Mead doesn’t respect me. And also others here are tempted to feel the same.

    I admit there are some things that I can give him the benefit of the doubt about. He mostly likes to emphasize the things we cannot grant him a doubt about. Things so obviously harmful to those around him that thee is no question about their nature. It is of these that I mostly try to write. They are so far out that to consider them in writing as if normal or believable, even to consider them at all in any way, you have to border on the offensive. And one who tries can be misunderstood.

    Simply said, even in my seriousness, I am mostly having fun. Not all of what I write do I believe; some have felt the need to question me about it.

    As for the fast, I/we need have no fear for our man. He knows how far he wants to take it and when to decide he has gotten all the mileage out of it that he can.

Thank you for visiting.